Characters development discussions

Yes, but how often do you have to dispell multiple Vim spells at the same time under a time contraint? That's what Multiple Casting is all about, after all.

Agreed. My mistake. I did a corner-of-the-table quick calculation and forgot that the first 5 years are only 45 xp + native language. That's the 30 xp difference.

Age 12 is kind of old to begin apprenticeship for a Gifted child who was covenant raised. Late-blooming Gift, perhaps?

Child name Ermengarda
Name chosen at Gauntlet : Morrigan maga Trianomae.

Born from a non gifted Folk Witch named Elena she spends most of his childhood with her mother outside of a village not too far from Montferrand. Her mother was considered a wise one by the community, they came to her to heal their animals or when something supposedly magical happened. She could also transform into a Black Bird and that's probably the reason why her magic is aligned with animals and crows in particular (Minor Magical Focus : Corvidae ; Affinity with animalem)

She was 4 when she began to exhibit effects of her gift, but without the usual social stigma associated with It (gentle Gift). She was brought before the Coven leader : an old women with a body twisted by warping. She was the hope of the coven. It didn't last long. The Coven was under surveillance by Alyssa (my mater a maga trianoma) a gentle gifted child was too valuable to pass. The Old Witch had a vision of her abducting the girl. Unwilling to combat a magi of the Order of Hermes, She and the member of her Coven cursed the girl for their own protection. Ermengarda willingly accepted a geas : If she ever harms a Folk Witch she would suffer the consequences. (Prohibition : Harming Folk Witches) When Alyssa arrived Ermengarda was waiting, alone.

About that part of the BG what consequences do you envision for the prohibition ? Never played the flaw before.

@Arthur do you have a preferred version of the three ways Alis could have move from the Flambeau parens to the Bonisagus parens? One used Diabolic Past, one Enemies, and one Tormenting Master. I'd rather go with a version you find most interesting and works with the overall story best.

I sense a trend of apprentices being taken away by Bonisagi. It's not wrong (I hope) just interesting to notice.

Being taken out from your community just as your gift arises and you’re detected seems like normal procedure to me. Not really something Bonisagus related.

Ah sorry I misunderstood your backstory a little. I've been talking about the right of Bonisagi to take apprentices from other Houses.

Never played with this flaw either, but here are my thoughts on it.

There can be a wide range of severity there. And there is also the question of whether Morrigan would even know what those consequences are (that is up to you). The consequences could have an effect that applies when she uses magic (additionnal botch dice, penalties to casting rolls), up to a complete inhability to cast spells. It could be one or more new Flaw being imposed on her (such as Clumsy Magic or Twilight Prone). It could be something completely unrelated to magic, such as a physical impairment manifesting itself (Disfigured, Lame, Arthirtis, Mute).

In general, it should be scaled according to how severe the Prohibition inhibits the character's behaviour and how often that will occur in the saga. So if there are few Folk Witches in the saga, then the consequences should be more severe than if you frequently meet some. In a way, it is almost a Story flaw rather than a Personality flaw.

Right now the prohibition is very narrow, so the consequences should probably be severe.

Enemies is probably the easier to work into the saga. Gerard mentioned that he was considering the same flaw, which can be good or bad, depending on the perspective. This may mean your enemies will band together to cause trouble for your whole covenant, or they may represent different axis of threat (so more trouble but less coordination).

In a way Tormenting Master would just really be a variant of Enemies in this case, since we are talking about your former Flambeau master, not your Bonisagus pater.

Diabolic Past is a bit harder to work in, since the saga's theme is the mystery of House Merinita. So I would be either forced to develop something related to the infernal, or link the infernal to the mystery in some ways. This can be good or bad to the troupe. Do the other players want to be dragged into this?

So this becomes a question to the troupe. Does the covenant want a strong and clearly identified enemy (or group of enemies)? Does the troupe want the disappearance of House Merinita (or decline of vis source) to have infernal tones?

I think I prefer It to be unknowing, It makes more sense to me to restrict my magic than to change my appearance considering they cursed me to protect themselves, not to punish me of some bad deeds but than again curses are not necessarily precise.
I agree the consequences should be proportional to the rarity of the encounters. I more or less expect this would lead to an impossible choice at some point and unless I'm very smart about It, I'll have to choose to curse myself and suffer the consequences or let the witch unharmed and suffer the consequences.

Well If players background call for It, let's have the ennemies we deserve. Having different factions with diverging agendas come together against us the mutual enemy can be interesting.
That's a motivation to seek doubtful allies ourselves to oppose them, trade favors, try to play one against the other... There's room for combat and social magus to shine in various stories.

As long as we've got a fighting chance and It's only one focus among others, why not.

I don't mind having infernal tones, but usually I prefer when the infernal is worsening an existing situation than work as the initiator of the plot.

As we're not in an Ars Magica 3rd Edition "It was all demons! All the time!" I'm OK with it appearing in the major elements of the saga.

A nice thing if I go the Enemies route is that I can leave things even more vague to let SG fit them in more easily without forcing things like the Infernal. Maybe it is there, maybe not.

The nature of the enemy (or enemies) will depend on each character's background, so don't leave things vague. As I mentioned for Alys (callen's maga), saying the enemy is her former master has very different tones than saying it is a rival of her own generation, or a Folk Witch coven that sees her as a traitor to that tradition.

The nature of each Enemies flaw will tell me whether it is possible for them to band together. Doesn't mean they will, but some choices may eliminate the possibility for some or all of them.

Here's where I am now with history:

Alis was raised at Blackthorn and groomed to be a servant to the magi there, taught Latin and other useful skills. Training began as a scribe, but she proved too clumsy for that, so she moved on to being a personal servant, focusing in etiquette and customs. Then her Gift emerged, surprisingly late but there nonetheless. Growing up in a covenant to serve magi and then becoming one herself, Alis knows no life but within the Order of Hermes. Her upbringing left her with an odd mix of Christian and Mercurian beliefs as well as a curious view of mortals that will likely persist forever.

Before she might be taken by another magus, Honoratus of Flambeau took her as his apprentice. Honoratus trained Alis in the School of Boreas and took her on missions with him so she could learn as a true Flambeau. While he did teach her some magical theory, they did not spend much time in the lab because Honoratus was pursuing an enemy. Being only an apprentice, Alis was not privy to all that he had discovered, but she knew Honoratus was trying to root out some enemy of the Order. Whoever all these enemies were, they were not without power, as demonstrated when Honoratus was killed in a fight in the Rhine. Alis, watching from some distance, escaped to safety.

She was picked up by Quaesitor Caecilius of Bonisagus, who adopted her as his own apprentice while also repeatedly probing her mind for every detail he might gather about these enemies. While Honoratus had trained Alis in more offensive techniques, Caecilius focused more on her defenses, training her heavily in Rego and Vim. While she had doubted Bonisagus magi before due to her martial training, she grew to greatly respect Caecilius and acknowledge that his pursuit of information was as valuable as the fighting done by the Flambeau. After twelve years living in a covenant as a grog, four years with a Flambeau master, and eleven years with a Quaesitor, Alis became determined to protect the Order from enemies within and without. She hopes to one day become both a hoplite and an archmaga and perhaps even a high-ranking member of a Tremere vexillation, among the greatest defenders of the Order ever.

I'm only trying to leave things vague to the point that I have something to investigate and pursue and to the extent that it allows flexibility with working into the rest of the plot rather than disrupting it.

Fixed a few typos. Hope you don't mind. :wink:

Where does the desire to become part of a Tremere vexillation come? I get that she's be proud of her dual Flambeau/Bonisagus origin, but the Tremere bit seems to come from nowhere.

Was the "enemy of the Order" that killed her first master ever found? What did she see when he was killed? Are you still going with the Enemies flaw and is it related to that?

She might not know who those enemies are, and why they are coming after her, but I'd like some inkling about what you'd like regarding the stories linked to this flaw. Don't leave me with all the work! :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

I'd just left that as an open thing for a character not overly in-the-know about the Order but with some knowledge. Some of the vexillations hunt enemies of the Order, and I just didn't want to rule that out so I wrote "perhaps." I can certainly remove the whole phrase.

I just wanted to run this part by you first, before spending more time writing stuff I might have to erase. It seems like this is heading in a better direction. Now I have to detail what she actually witnessed beforehand and when her first parens was slain.

This is where I have things right now, trying to take into account the late emergence of her Gift alongside Enemies, with no experience with the Infernal outside of picking up DEO as a precaution.

Alis, Follower of Bonisagus, filia Caecilius

Characteristics: Int +3, Per +1, Str 0, Sta +2, Pre +1, Com +1, Dex -3, Qik +1
Size: 0
Age: 27 (27)
Decrepitude: 0
Warping Score: 0 (0)
Confidence Score: 1 (3)
Virtues: Affinity with Perdo, Affinity with Vim, Cautious Sorceress, The Gift, Hermetic Maga, Life Boost, Life-Linked Spontaneous Magic, Minor Magical Focus (Cold), Puissant Magic Theory, Puissant Parma Magica, Skilled Parens
Flaws: Covenant Upbringing, Driven (major), Enemies, Study Requirement
Personality Traits: Brave +2, Determined +5, Loyal +3, Methodical +2, Suspicious +2
Reputations: -
Combat:

Weapon Init Atk Def Dam
Dodge n/a n/a +2 n/a
Fist +1 -2 +2 0
Kick 0 -2 +1 +2
Gauntlet & Heater Shield +1 -1 +7 +2

Soak: Stamina 2 + Protection ? + Form = ?
Fatigue Levels: OK, 0, -1, -3, -5, Unconscious
Wound Penalties: -1 (1–5), -3 (6–10), -5 (11–15), Incapacitated (16–20)
Abilities: Area Lore: Stonehenge Tribunal 1 (Hermetic Sites), Artes Liberales 1 (Ceremonial Casting), Athletics 1 (Dancing), Awareness 1 (Alertness), Brawl 1 (Gauntlets), Charm 1 (Seduction), Code of Hermes 1 (Investigative Procedures), Concentration 2 (Spells), Etiquette 2 (Hermetic), Finesse 1 (Speed), Folk Ken 1 (Men), Guile 1 (Slippery Truths), Intrigue 1 (Hermetic), Language: Brythonic 5 (Welsh), Language: Latin 5 (Hermetic), Magic Theory 3+2 (Spells), Organization Lore: Durenmar 1 (Tractatus), Organization Lore: Order of Hermes 1 (House Bonisagus), Parma Magica 1+2 (Vim), Penetration 1 (Perdo), Philosophiae 1 (Ceremonial Casting), Profession: Scribe 1 (Illumination), Single Weapon 1 (Heater Shield), Stealth 1 (Indoors), Swim 1 (Underwater)
Arts: Perdo 10 (1), Rego 9, Ignem 7, Vim 14
Casting Sigil:
Twilight Scars: -
Equipment: Heater shield, ?
Encumbrance: ?

SPELLS KNOWN:

Wizard’s Icy Grip (PeIg 30 / +28), Mastery 2: Adaptive Casting, Multiple Casting
Demon’s Eternal Oblivion (PeVi 20 / +26)
Unraveling the Threads of Vim (PeVi 20 / +28), Mastery 2: Adaptive Casting, Multiple Casting
Aegis of the Hearth (ReVi 20 / +28), Mastery 1: Adaptive Casting
Suppressing the Wizard’s Handiwork (ReVi 25 / +25)
Sustaining the Demanding Spell (ReVi 35 / +25)

Here's the current state of Basilus. I reeled back the overspecialization just a bit and made him more of a teamplayer (in some ways). We'll see what happens.

Basilus ex Bonisagus (imported from the automated character sheet)
Characteristics: Int 3, Per 1, Pre 0, Com 1, Str -2, Sta 1, Dex 0, Qik 1
Size: 0
Age: 22 (22)
Decrepitude: 0 (0)
Warping Score: 0 (0)
Confidence Score: 1 (3)
Virtues and Flaws: The Gift, Hermetic Magus, Puissant (magic theory), Flawless Magic, Affinity (Muto), Affinity (Vim), Book Learner, Inventive Genius, Life Boost, Chaotic Magic, Warped Magic, Driven, Minor (research for the betterment of the Order), Meddler, Minor (helping other magi...?), Enemies (rival researcher), (probably Infamous Master?)
Personality Traits: Driven to research 3, Meddler with others 3, Rivalry 2, Christian 1,
Reputations: None
Combat:
Dodging: Init 1, Attack 2, Defense 3, Damage -2
Dagger: Init 1, Attack 3, Defense 1, Damage 1
Soak: 1
Fatigue Levels: OK, 0, –1, –3, –5, Unconscious
Wound Penalties: -1 (1 - 5), -3 (6 - 10) -5 (11 - 15), Incapacitated (16 - 20)
Abilities: German (Hessian) (slang) 5, Frankfurt Lore (streets) 1, Athletics (running) 1, Awareness (searching) 2, Brawl (dodging) 1, Charm (first impressions) 1, Folk Ken (magi) 1, Guile (fast talk) 1, Stealth (hiding) 1, Survival (cities) 1, Swim (long distances) 1, Concentration (spell concentration) 2, Artes Liberales (grammar) 1, Latin (Hermetic usage) 4, Magic Theory (inventing spells) 3, Parma Magica (Vim) 1, Profession: Scribe (Elegant Script) 1, Finesse (Vim) 1, Order of Hermes Lore (Important figures) 1, Code of Hermes (Tribunar procedures) 1, Magic Realm Lore
(regiones) 1, Philosophiae (metaphysics) 1
Arts: Cr 2, In 4, Mu 11, Pe 2, Re 5, An 0, Aq 0, Au 0, Co 5, He 0, Ig 0, Im 0, Me 0, Te 0, Vi 9
Twilight Scars: None
Equipment: Wizardly robes.
Encumbrance 0
Spells Known:
Doublet of Impenetrable Silk MuAn
15
Maintaining the Demanding Spell ReVi 15
Disguise of the New Visage MuCo 15
Preternatural Growth and Shrinking MuCo 15
Wizard's Reach (Corpus) MuVi 20
Spasms of the Uncontrolled Hand ReCo 5
Rise of the Feathery Body ReCo 15
Wizard's Boost (Corpus) MuVi 20

I think German (Hessian) would actually be High German (Franconian), if we go by the languages in GotF p.138. You won't get the "slang" specialty, since Franconian is already the regional specialty that goes with the native language.

Magic Theory seems low for a research-oriented Bonisagus.

Survival (cities) would imply he was an orphan who lived in the streets for some time?

Note that specialties must be appropriate for the period of life in which the ability was learned. So Folk Ken (magi) would need to have been learned with xp available during apprenticeship. Same with Concentration (spells).

Overall, looks much more balanced. :slight_smile:

Unless I miscounted, you have more points in Flaws than Virtues (without have exceeded 10 points in Flaws, which I sometimes do). That leaves you room for an experience-granting Virtue a the very least. Or, since you're doing research, maybe Affinity with Magic Theory. For original research, it's super-valuable to reach MT 11.

You need to select your masteries for each spells with flawless magic.
Your magic theory is 3+2 because of puissant magic theory