charcoal economy

Any pattern based sigil, as it was speed grown, could display in tree rings, or if it is a big bush, in patterns in the bush, etc.

1 Like

This verges into Transforming Mythic Europe territory but I could see a world in which eventually connoisseurs are like ā€œYes this wood was grown by X Mage, you can tell based on the ring patterns that look cross-sections of march hares.ā€

1 Like

My Magi’s trees would be rather distinct, since his sigil is roses. So you would end up with a grove of oak trees that smell like roses, have a few thorns, and have flowers that look vaguely rose like.

1 Like

To heck with sigils, you try selling this wood on the open market and it isn’t long before some churchman with a lot of woodcutters in his parish is coming round asking why your giant trees only have one ring.

1 Like

Devil's Advocate:

Would not rings in wood be considered worldly imperfections?

Thus wood with smooth grain wood be a sign of Divine perfection?

:smiling_face_with_horns:

2 Likes

That magus should be named ElzƩard Bouffier.

2 Likes

to me it makes me think of Obelix tossing acorns in ā€œMansions of the Godsā€

1 Like

A lovely movie!

I’m pretty sure that even in the middle ages it was understood what tree rings meant. You only have to cut down 3 or 4 younger trees to realize it, and people whose jobs are going by the wayside are not going to be joyfully exclaiming the divine nature of their competition.

Even if wood cutters knew that there was was one ring per year of growth, surely that is not inconsistent with the world view that this tree reflects the trials and tribulations mortal realm away from the Divine presence? :smiling_face_with_horns:

Are we even taking it as a given that in ME, trees that are brought to maturity by magic only have a single ring? It would seem that having an appropriate amount of rings would be an expected feature of a mature tree. Not having an appropriate amount would be much like using maturing magic to age live stock and them having some noticeable difference from naturally matured livestock.

4 Likes

Take a look here: Dendrochronology - Wikipedia .
So extremely few learned medieval churchmen - those who have read and memorized Theophrastus' Historia Plantarum (Historia Plantarum (Theophrastus) - Wikipedia) - might know of tree rings without knowing their nature.
Whether medieval wood merchants knew more and were ready and able to make a fuss depends on their connections and fear of losing markets. That is just the typical situation of finding a market for products created by Hermetic magic - nothing more or less.

In the case of trees the rings are formed by cycles they go through in terms of season. Trees that grow in uniform climates (no notable seasonal difference in weather) do not form rings. so yes, it would be the same as aging up sheep, for example, and noting that they do not show any signs of having had multiple seasons of wool having grown (though I have no idea what that would look like). They key thing is that rings don’t simply occur due to time, but to seasonal variations over time.

That’s 100% true. Magical growth would follow this ā€œautomataā€ approach if you want to use reality.

It’s also possible an quick aging tree reflects the platonic ideal tree and get spurious rings as it grows, no matter the season.

It depends how you want to build your Mythic Middle Ages.

2 Likes

I would say that both options are perfectly valid. If it is something that comes up, to just use which ever is most appropriate and ā€œfittingā€ for your individual saga.

Since grain in wood is important for some applications, I’d be inclined to allow a Magi to have the rings formed if he so chooses. If he wanted something special, like spalted, bird’s eye, or some such special pattern, then I’d require an extra magnitude for it.

The "doesn't have rings" interpretation, I believe, misunderstands what Hermetic maturation magic is doing. To quote from the Creo section of chapter 7 of the Definitive Edition (p.207):

Creo magic makes things that exist independently into better things of their kind, which includes bringing them into existence from nothing.

Natural things, such as plants, animals, flames, and so on, have simple forms, which means that the form is just one thing. This makes them easy to create and heal. Natural things created by magic are always perfect examples of their kind unless the magus wants them to be damaged.

A magus can also use Creo to make something a better example of its kind, even if it isn't actually injured or damaged.

Since maturation involves becoming a better example of your kind, Creo magic can make something mature quickly.

Creo magic can also create unnatural things, such as a winged cat, but a Muto requisite is
necessary.

(Everything but that last quote is also in the original core rules, p.77.)

So, to my analysis, does a natural mature oak tree have a whole bunch of tree rings? Is a mature oak tree with no rings unnatural? Then when a CrHe spell transforms an acorn or oak sapling or oak stump into a mature oak tree, the spell transforms it into an oak tree with a whole bunch of rings.

Now, non-Hermetic magic, or maybe some version of Rego Herbam aimed at maturation, might cause trees to "grow extra during the current season", rather than transform them to a more-ideal form, and thus leave evidence in the rings. But that's not what a CrHe maturation spell is doing.

As far as controlling the rings, Magical Craft (DE p.306) says:

Natural objects, such as boulders, plants, or animals, can be created with Creo magic. Unless the caster botches the spell, the result is always a good example of that sort of thing. The caster may make an Intelligence + Finesse roll to add or control details, such as the shape of a tree’s branches or the color of an animal’s fur, within the normal range for such things. A failure on the Finesse roll just means that the caster does not get the desired details; the created thing is still a good example of the sort of thing it is.

Ring patterns that are within normal natural variation can thus be specified by Intelligence + Finesse. Those that are not within natural variation would require a Muto requisite.

2 Likes

Ring patterns sure.
But spalted is caused by a fungi inside the tree, so that’s why I’d require an extra magnitude.
So Bird’s Eye might be possible with just an Int + Finesse roll.

Is it, in mythic europe? Even when the source material doesn’t specifically mention something (and I assume no book writes about spalting), citing real world biology isn’t enough in my opinion.

2 Likes

The thing is that if the spell grows a plant to maturity within a single day, that is not magical creation, it is growth within a day, which is a part of a season. so the tree gros in one season. The rings are a result of a sort of damage from winter (no winter, no rings, even for tropical climates this holds true- tropical hardwoods have no rings).