Chest of teleportation idea / questions

Games Discussion Ars Magica
1

Hi All,

I'm trying to figure out a way for non-spell casting creatures to teleport vis they've found to us, so we don't have to keep traveling to go get it.

I'd thought about a pair of boxes, enchanted with an arcane connection. The vis is in stones. It only needs to teleport stone (although I suppose it could be designed to teleport other materials).

ReTe
Range: Arcane
Target: Group (anything in the box)
Duration: Momentary

Base: 4 (move stone in a very unnatural fashion), +4 Arcane, +2 Group
Total effect (not including additional uses or anything) would be 30.
Put stuff in the box, close the box, and it appears in the identical box wherever it is.

Does that make sense, or am I way off of the mark? If I wanted to include other reqs, such as herbam and/or animal, would that add another magnitude?

I suppose it could be a one-way thing, so that only one of the chests is actually magical. Or both could be enchanted separately to make it two way. Or maybe it's beyond the bounds of Hermetic theory and would require a breakthrough.
HELP! :smile: Please

2

Of course, I just realized I could make it a wand that has a built in arcane connection to a box or something, and have the target be individual (and add multiple uses/day)

3

The concept is strong, but from what I can tell the range is supposed to be the range to effected target, not the range of the teleportation.

By analogy with the ReCo guidelines you could argue a few different base levels.

  1. You could argue that since moving a target quickly in any direction you choose is level 15, and it's roughly equivalent to ReTe level 4 move a stone very unnaturally, from there it is 4 magnitudes to teleport to an arcane connection so it is base 20, which I feel is a tad low.

  2. You could also argue that level 3 ReCo Move a target slowly would be an analogue for a ReTe 1 natural movement, from which there is an 8 magnitude jump from there to teleport via arcane connection, giving us a total of base 25.

After checking I found Transforming mythic europe has an entry for teleportation on page 107, there it says level 4 for teleporting inanimate objects 5 paces, +5 for arcane connection gives base 25. Since this also agrees with the latter of my personal calculations, it is what I would use as a storyguide.

Which gives your final level of 35 after adding group.

As a sidenote, there is endless debate over whether you need to have requisites for ReTe spells like unseen porter, I fall into the camp that all dead/inanimate things are solid and can therefore be moved in bulk with ReTe but anything that actually uses the material properties of the moved item would require requisites (weaving, sewing, processing). I feel that consistency is worth more than the correct answer, so just choose one and stick with it, or discuss it before changing.

2 Likes
4

Okay, slightly off topic, but would an arcane connection bypass an Aegis of the Hearth?

5

Maybe they could use homing pigeons; Pliny the Elder described their military use in the first century. You might need a shrink ray (or an embiggening ray.)

I'm not sure I understand the problem you're trying to solve. Why can't the finders just carry it back themselves?

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6

I wold definitely have a Vim Requisite if they want to transport the Vis as well...

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7

No. It would give a bonus to Penetration score, but since it is a magical item, it does not have a Penetration skill, so 0 x X = 0...
And I am not sure it would be so wise to design a magical item that can teleport anything solid inside a covenant, bypassing the Aegis. Even small items can cause all kinds of trouble. Or something turn temporarily to stone, or... or....
So I guess that a safe alternative is to have the reception box outside of the Aegis, in a small shed, a hidden coffer or something along those lines.

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8

Maybe they could turn the stones into homing pigeons. Here's the spell - for a magic effect just add uses/day (in my view, 1 would probably be enough):

The homing stones
MuTe(Re,An) 35
R:Touch D:Moon T:Circle
Changes all solid objects within a circle drawn at the time of casting into homing pigeons. The pigeons have a strong compulsion to fly to any location the caster has an Arcane Connection to.
Base 5 Turn dirt into an animal (with An requisite), +1 stone, +1Rego requisite, +1Touch, +3Moon

Note that due to the Moon duration, this is just as efficient than Teleportation (which could use T:Circle, too saving 2 magnitudes, and must add +1 magnitude for stone rather than dirt); however, it also involves strictly more Arts, is not instantaneous, and has an effective Range of a few thousand miles. However, there are cases when it would be better - for example, if the caster/enchanter had a focus in pigeons, or lots of Animal and no Rego or Terram vis.

Even better: shave 2 magnitudes turning each stone into a puff of air (ReTe(Au) 3)!

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9

I'm trying to get vis from a source that's controlled by some fae back to us, without having to travel there to get it.
They don't travel.
As it is, we have to go there, get it, and come back.

10

Re: the homing pidgeon plan

If they are working with the fae, I would bet that it involves a regio.

I'm pretty sure that an arcane connection can pass regio boundaries easily but pigeons would probably get lost.

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11

Whether ACs and teleportation work would depend on the regio. Regione are supposed to be too mysterious to allow universal rules.

Whether the pigeons can cross depend on the pigeon, and magically created pigeons depend on your magic, which is also rather flexible.

Whether the problem in itself involves a regio depends on the particular faerie. There are enough faerie and faerie vis living in non-regio auras, so again there should be no a priori assumption, but I trust you know that there is a regio in you saga. OTOH, have you asked the faeries if they would care to step outside the regio just to release the carrier pigeon?

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12

Thanks for this detail! It helps inform a solution.

My followup question is: What are the magi paying the fae for this vis, and how are they getting the payment to the fae?

13

We're giving them periodic deliveries of bronze tools.

O was thinking of an item to make them, so we wouldn't have to continually deliver them.

14

You don't need the Range to be AC: that'd be for the chest at the covenant to "take" the contents of the transported one. and you'd still run into the below issue.
I would also use T: Room, since a box qualifies as one.

See also TME p107, which covers magical transportation. You've got the right base, but "In all cases, add 1 magnitude to increase the distance to 50 paces,2 magnitudes for 500 paces, 3 magnitudes for 1 league, 4 magnitudes for seven leagues, and 5 magnitudes to a place for which you have an Arcane
Connection."
So, that'd be:
R: +1Touch, T: +2Room, D: +0 mom
Base 4, +5 mag to teleport from the carried box to the destination one.
So, final level 40 :exploding_head:

I might also be wrong, but I seem to recall a line about a Vim requisite being needed to teleport vis :smiling_face_with_tear:

15

Designing a Teleportation device, you first have to decide if it is a "Push" (with "Receiver" AC target) or "Pull" (with "Sender" AC target) item. Both have advantages and disadvantages.

A "Push" item is going to be lower level because it only needs a Range of Touch. This makes it 15 levels lower which is easier to enchant and takes less Vis. However it must be at the site and cannot penetrate AotH (well it can with enough Penetration but not worth it compared to "Pull"). This means it is easier to steal and the receiver has to be outside of the Covenant AotH.

A "Pull" item will be within the Covenant which makes it harder to steal. Being enchanted in the Covenant and present during the annual AotH lets it function through the AotH. However it will need the AC Range which makes it 15 levels higher, thus more difficult and expensive to enchant.

For the Target it depends on how much you want to potentially send at once.

Individual really needs some sort of "sighting" effect to make sure you get what you want unless you are OK with pulling a single random item if there are multiple possibles. If someone put a mix of items in the "Sender" box every time the effect was activated a random one would be sent.

Group is OK since generally all of the stones that could be placed in the "Sender" would be less than its maximum of 10x Base Individual. However if precious metals or gemstones were placed in the "Sender" then you could easily exceed its maximum. Only use if Room is not a valid Target.

Room is better than Group in every way for the same cost. A closable box is also a valid Target for Room. So if you are going with boxes use this one.

The Base for Transporting non-living objects an AC distance is ReTe Base 25. It requires Requisites for things primarily not covered by Terram (teleporting dead plants is ReTe(He) rather than ReHe). Note that this does not require the additional Mags a ReTe effect normally would to effect things other than earth (Stone is a +1 for control). So unless it was restricted to just stones, it could be used to send dirt, metals, and gems as well.

As the Fixer calculated, the level for a "Push" item would be 40. With the need for an AC Range, the level for a "Pull" item would be 55.

If your Magi lack sufficient ability to craft a "Pull" item themselves, I would recommend going with a "Push" one. A "Pull" needs to meet specific requirements to function and if you hired the work out then it would have to sit unusable for a while.

EDIT: Forgot the whole "is Vim needed" thing. It should not be, since you are moving the object rather than transferring the vis from one physical object to the other. However it does present another option rather than teleporting the rocks.

You could go with a ReVi Base 10, AC Range Effect to move the actual Vis from the stones in one box to something at the other end. There is no difference in the level of a Push or Pull design here, which means a Pull design is better.

There is a "slight drawback" in that all the vis will be put into a single object, without some extra design work and use limitations. However it is pretty easy to split it up if desired (common low level spell/effect) so not really much of an issue.

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16

I don't think that works. The Target in that case is the vis being moved; the object it is being moved into is part of the Base effect. Other Rego "teleportation" effects have different Base levels for the distance being moved. In this case the only Base effect we have doesn't specify, but from the examples we have it's apparently "Touch." You'd need to research additional Base guidelines, probably with an additional +1 Magnitude to 5-paces, then 50-paces, then 500-paces, then 1-league, then 7-leagues: +6 Magnitudes to get to Arcane Connection by analogy to the ReTe guidelines. Seems prohibitive.

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17

Not only prohibitive, but possibly impossible to enchant: Rituals cannot be cast by magical item, so if base level + magnitudes for Range/Target (duration will be inst. anyway) brings the final level above 55, it cannot be enchanted.

18

Effects that would only be rituals can be enchanted into items if the only reason it's a ritual is due to the spell level.

E.g., you can't enchant a year long effect. But you could enchant an effect with a final level over 50.

E.g., CeIg base 15 do +20 damage
Sight +3
Group +2
Sun +2
Penetration +10 levels
Uses +5 levels
Total 65

That's legal under core rules
Page 96, just above "types of enchanted items"

The exception is spells that are rituals only because the spell level is over 50, not because of duration, target, or major effect, may be placed in items.

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19

You could reduce the required lab total for a "Pull" item by using an Intangible Tunnel effect, though this would require an Invested device.

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20

Not really worth it though. It would cut the level down to level 40 for the teleport effect but require you to create an invested device and another level 35 (at least) effect for the Intangible Tunnel. It would be 35 only if allowed to be Momentary (YSMV), otherwise it will be higher. The teleport would most likely need a Linked Trigger (+3) and the total levels needed for Uses per Day would double since that is across two effects. Total Vis required would be x2.5+ and the total time to enchant it would go up as well.

While yes you can normally split a larger effect across multiple smaller ones, the total time and vis investment needed means it is only really worth it if there is a hard Lab Total limit and the item is critical.