Chtonic verditius

Games Discussion Ars Magica
1

Hello ! For my first message here i would ask you some question.
Despite the fact than i know this forum from a long time, i hadnt the opportunity to really ask something. Well, how times fly.

Im heavily attracted to Diedne story, and also infernalism, i support the story about Diedne were diabolist, but just a minority of them. Im trying to make my pagan Irish verditius magi from hivernian tribunal (filius of Praetorius of verditius) and to bind all ideas together. I read intensivly various subject here about verditius, infernalism, item crafting and so on but nothing in the same post. Im a huge fan of RoP:TI.

I want to use the apotropaic spell guideline with binding rules about magic item and verditius cult mystery Binding magical creature and i dont know if it is possible rulewise. Optimise all i can between verditius and the "good" side of venatores if it follow the concept of Diedne and druidism.

In my mind if i find a demon, i can bind it in a item(MuVim spell), "opening" the item for (demon Might x 5) spell level. Then i can use the same demon Might for enchanting the item. I think half the demon might for "opening" and half the demon might for the effect and im good.

What is your opinion about this ?

Of course he has chtonic magic, affinity and potent magic theory, affinity with vim, minor magical focus (binding demon), apt student (because oral tradition for druidism), lucky and inventive genius (i hope i can use the lucky bonus when i experiment).
Vice: Necessary condition(singing), proud(major), vision, dark secret(venatores)

Can you imagine a singing magi, blue paint on his face and body, destroying, binding and making magic item with the same demon he hunt ? If you know Wraith lore from world of darkness, you should imagin easely the possibility of what a verditius can do with a limitless supply of vis from demon (or sort of), near a sacrificial circle of huge stone.

Another question, how can i make my magi survive ? Creo vim for masking aura on items ? Mentem with huge penetration for rewriting (or forget) what the guernicus had seen with Sense Holyness ?

Did this concept have flaw you can clearly see ?

2

You don't use the spirit you are binding to create the item, it is used to power the ritual spells the item casts. In that binding a demon would be very similar to using infernal vis, aside from the fact that while the demon persists it is likely to be a very cunning and slippery individual trying to gain its freedom.

3

I should had mentionned i bind with wicked jar spell, not Binding goetia magic.

Chtonic magic is considered clearly infernal, if used with forsaken duration for exemple, wich qualify it for infernal effect i think.

4

I thought you were referring to hermetic spirit magic, the wicked jar does even less, there is nothing in its description for making use of the demon, just imprisoning it.

5

Does anyone allow this? It's true the table is pretty random, but to say that experimenting is much like a poker table... I don't know.

6

Ok i though it will at least permit to use it like opening enchantment. But he is still imprisoned. And thats perfect because with Binding magical creature i need a caged magical creature during all the enchantment process.

I need to change my plan: 2 object, one containing the demon with wicked jar, and another already opened. Then i use the Might of the demon for the enchantment.

And about the experimenting ? well, i dont really know... But 2 minor virtue for a better chance of discovery dont seems to be too strong. Another angle of reflexion: if there is one time when luck is helping when practicing magic, its clearly when experimenting.

7

Why use a demon at all?
Why not just use the much safer option of using a magical creature instead?

8

Because i already know it work with a standard magical creature.

Im trying to find a usefull way to use chtonic magic and apotropaic spell with verditius mystery cult.

9

Like I said earlier, it would be like using infernal vis for the rituals. On the other hand, why torture a magical being when you can torture a demon?

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10

Do you have any other idea how to use magical creature(demon included) with cthonic magic and verditious crafting ?

11

The Hermetic mystery of spell binding.

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12

Yup, spell binding is a very good exemple and maybe closer to what you are searching for.
I wonder if spirit magic would work on demons too...

13

I would expect that depending on your saga it would either work or require a relatively minor breakthrough. Perhaps it might require chthonic magic to work...

14

After some research on this forum, i will use the rules in Mystery Cults for enchanted tattoos and the apotropaic magic in The Infernal.

I will think of all your advice !

But... I think i really dont understund the way you describe binding magic (from infernal) about vis use and opening enchantement... Can you make me a step by step explanation ?

15

Vis use from binding is from the mysteries, not the infernal. The infernal just lets you bind a demon to an object, noting more with its binding, though ablating lets you use their might for certain benefits- including extracting vis.