Think of it as the Parma vs a tunnel effect. Once the Tunnel effect has penetrated the Parma, the spells navigating the tunnel don’t need to penetrate the Parma even if the Parma is still up.
W
Possibly I am being too literal here, or dense, but the boundary is walked by the caster. The path of the caster defines the boundary.
Because people keep thinking that the Aegis is some sort of barrier that if you get past it somehow you’re fine, or that if something else gets through its barrier you can use it to get through unaffected yourself. It’s just a Container Target; specifically of the second type:
Second, they can affect any valid target within the Target container during the spell's period of effect. In this case, a valid target that leaves the container ceases to be affected by the spell, and a valid target that enters (or re-enters) the container is affected, until it leaves or the spell expires.
It doesn’t matter if you enter the area affected by the Aegis through the front door, via a Regio, by Hermes portal, or any other way – YOU are the one that is affected by the Aegis the moment that you try to enter it. Whatever effect the Aegis had on the door, Regio, or Hermes portal is irrelevant to YOU, as you are a new Target. They’re just another way into the covenant, like any other way to walk in. They’re not spell effects; they don’t have to Penetrate.
If you try to teleport in, the spell has to overcome the Aegis. If it does, you’re in but still subject to the Aegis. In the case of something with Might teleporting in their might will also have to overcome the Aegis because it affects both the spell and the being with Might separately; they’re different Targets to its effect.
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Perhaps some scenarios will help clarify. I am a being with Might trying to get into your covenant.
You left the back door unlocked, so I walk through it into the covenant. If the Aegis overcomes my Might I don’t get in. If it doesn’t I’m still affected by the rest of the Aegis effect.
I climb over the walls to get in. If I fail my Athletics roll I don’t get in. If I succeed, the Aegis may still overcome my Might and I won’t get in.
The front door is locked so I use my Power to unlock it; if I don’t Penetrate the Aegis I don’t get in. If I do get the door unlocked, the Aegis may still overcome my Might and I won’t get in even though the door is open.
You put a clever pit trap on the secret entrance and if I don’t make my Awareness check I fall in and don’t get in. If I do notice the trap the Aegis may still overcome my Might and I won’t get in that way either.
There’s a Regio with an unexpected entrance into the covenant. It’s not a magical effect, so the Aegis doesn’t affect it. But when I try to leave the Regio into the covenant the Aegis may overcome my Might and I won’t get in (leaving me in the Regio).
Someone teleports me into the covenant. They have to Penetrate the Aegis; if they don’t then I go nowhere. If they do, the Aegis may still overcome my Might and I don’t get in – the question of where do I end up if the teleport worked but I can’t arrive where it sent me is up to the troupe (appear midair over the covenant? appear just outside the Aegis boundary? end up in that whacky Regio?)
There’s a Hermes portal into the covenant; it’s native to the Aegis per the Aegis rules so its effect isn’t hindered by the Aegis. When I walk through the Aegis may still overcome my Might and prevent me from entering into the covenant.
I’m dropped from a great height onto the covenant. If the Aegis overcomes my Might I don’t actually enter the covenant but probably smack into it (taking damage) and bounce off. If the Aegis doesn’t overcome my Might I still hit (taking damage) but maybe my corpse lands in the courtyard and I’m in.
The way that I enter may or may not be a valid Target for the Aegis (teleport, unlock-the-door magic) and the Aegis affects that separately. I am a separate valid Target for the Aegis and it affects me regardless of what happened with whatever method I used to try to enter the covenant.
If I didn’t have Might I’d just walk right in, of course.
5 Likes
Poor Notatus being reduced to having his lifetime work tagged as just a Container spell.
It is true that the Aegis is weak. Even creatures possessing someone, that is not even native to the Aegis, can enter the Aegis albeit they will be affected by the Aegis penalty to their powers.
RoP:I p32
"In all other situations, the demon can “hide” within the host, and walk through such wards with impunity."
From this ability for a creature to hide within the boundary of a human and bypass the boundary of the Aegis, it is reasonable to think that Rituals that create hermetic portals or Powers from Arcadia that create portals, may do the same.
W
No, that is not at all reasonable. That is an exception written into the text of Aegis of the Hearth and it is not reasonable to think that it should apply to any other Container-target spell. If it did, those spells would have similar notes written in their text. It’s a weakness specific to the Aegis.
Furthermore, demonic possession is in no way similar to a Hermetic portal or similar way to enter the covenant. If you invent a spell to possess someone – and there are Faeries who do that – then it would be reasonable to apply that vulnerability to faerie possession as well as demonic possession; they’re similar.
2 Likes
Agree to disagree.
Not 100% sure what you are referring to exactly but the possession bypasses all types of wards not just the Aegis.
Even if we say that by default the Aegis would keep out the creatures coming out of the portal, I can also see a MuVi spont/formulaic effect of the same level as the Aegis that would simply allow the passage of creatures of a given realm. Faeries could easily work that into their portal… at least for all but the most powerful Aegis.
Edit: Comes to mind that the MuVi would have to be cast at the same time as the Aegis. I guess they could suppress the Aegis with ReVi while the portal opens and the creatures slips in. Still easy to do.
Edit2: MuVi requiring to be cast at the same time as the original spell is a hermetic limit. The Fey probably aren't restricted in the same way.
W
Nope. Spells are still Touch Range. Only Personal bypasses Parma.
3 Likes
Mymy. You are absolutely correct. Thanks for flagging that.
W
Nope. Spells are still Touch Range. Only Personal bypasses Parma.
Since I was going to say this too, i want just to add that there is also the touch effects in the familiar bond.There is no penetration in any of the examples power, which would all fail since the familiar has might and the magus has the parma magica or its form, or the familiar magic resistance. I assumed that it was due to this quote (ArM5 p105):
“Neither needs to overcome the other’s magic resistance in order to affect them with a spell or magical ability.”
which makes me think that to annoy (or worse) a magus, a reliable way to hit a magus is to target its familiar either with a arcane tunnel (+ touch following spell) or arcane range range tethered spell or MuVi’d to make him the caster of a spell targetting it’s magus, and in both case the RM wouldn’t matter.
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Which opens the can of worms of how to gain access to the Familiar.
Or give the familiar the magical power to attack the Mage. Silver Cord should equally protect the Familiar.
It is not as if gaining the Familiar’s shed fur/feather/scale/whatever should allow you an Arcane Connection to the Magus.
Yes but it’s one more example of how the magus acting is always winning because there are too many ways to act and not enough time for the defense to cover all its bases.