City and guilds questions about labor


i have 2 questions.

  1. City&guilds, page 40 says that : 36 LP of a wealthy or 12 LP of an average or 6 LP of a poor are worth the same sums (by social rank).



My poor has a (base 6)x2 LP per season (= average 12) and must work 3 seasons per year to gain the 36 needed LP.
He has then 36:6 = 6 times the "number of pound"

My average has a (base 6)x 3 LP and must work 2 seasons => 36 LP
He has then 3 times the number of pound??

The wealthy work (base 6)x6 LP => must work 1 season => 36 LP
He has then... 1 time?!! the number of pound equivalent.

Am I missing something?
(okay, the wealthy can work a 2d season for x2... but this isn't the same that the 6x... )

I think - but unsure - that the numbers are reversed: 6 is for the wealthy, 12 for the average and 36 for the poor, so the poor has 1 times what the average have 3 times what the wealthy have 6 times... seems more correct!

  1. about Labor points and Capo social rank.

Must the capo do rolls? My future character capo has most ability (leadership, intrigue, etiquette, bargain => deals with the powerful men) but no "profession: merchant", because it's not him who sells the goods: he do more politics and strategy (and intrigue things) than selling in the shop...

So on what are based the Labor points?

The skills of the employee? or another thing?

Labor Points represent the fruits of your labour, not the amount of money you can earn. And the Poor, Standard, and Wealthy scale represents how much free time you have - the more time you have that you don't need to devote to working, the "wealthier" you are considered to be.

To be honest, I'm not sure how to read page 40. I can't quite get my head around it. I think I know the intent, but I can't get it to square with the numbers, which probably means I haven't got it...

Have you checked for any errata on this point?

But looking at it:
If I worked every season, how much could I "earn" from a Trivial Income Source assuming I had to pay my standard 36 LP just to keep my head above water?

Poor = 3 seasons x 12 LP = 36. That leaves me able to work a fourth season for 12 LP, which gives me 5 Pounds
Standard = 2 seasons x 18 LP = 36. That leaves me able to work two seasons for 36 LP, which gives me 15 Pounds
Wealthy = 1 seasons x 36 LP = 36. That leaves me able to work a fourth season for 108 LP, which gives me 45 Pounds

I'm not even sure that's the way to work this out but it's how the numbers in the book can be applied AND have the Wealthy character exhibit much more earning potential.

No errata (i just checked the page and applyed the new one to my books ^^).

For the season: 3 or more seasons of works is negative reputation flawed. So i do assume 2 is normal.
So if your assumption is correct (that you need to "pay" 36 LP before everything), that makes sense:

the poor get : 36 - 36 = 0 ... they just "live" but no economy and are bad seen .. (the poors!)

the average gain 2 x 18 = 36 - 36 = 0 so nothing, but no negative reputation as a overworker. With a 3d season : 1,5 time the number.
the wealthy gain 2x 36 - 36 = 36 so 1 times the number as economy. With 3d season: 2 time the number.

It's with the 3d season i think the calcul can't be correct... because for the "4th" season, the average is = to the wealthy???

That could be correct if limited to 2 seasons but... i think the numbers are reversed (that would make sense even with your "pay before 36LP" thinking).

My wealthy is anyway going to have a little 60 by season so the problem is just about comprehension.

I "Think" I understand your problem. If so, I posted about it here

Basically, I feel that it should be 12, 18, 36. (not 6,12,36), and that Wealth Multiplier wasn't clearly defined.
No errata occured, so maybe i'm wrong.

okay maybe your errata is correct.

For 3 seasons it could be good (factor 1 / 2 = 3 / 6), but it's weird for 4 seasons (factor 2/3, unsupported by the actual factors (which are 2 - 3 - 6))...

Nobody for the 2?

While I do think it was supposed to be written as 12/18/36, that still isn't computed properly. For example, since the year's income is a product of a single season's worth of work from a wealthy person, the value should not be quartered. I believe it should be

Poor: (annual income)/(6x2x3)
Average: (annual income)/(6x3x2)
Wealthy: (annual income)/(6x6x1)

which in all cases gives 1 Labor Point is worth about 1/36 of your annual income. That is entirely in line with the earlier statement that 36 Labor Points is the standard to run your business for a year, and thus generate your income.

I have much more of an issue trying to figure out how to deal with Labor Points, craftsmen, apprentices, and a workshop in a covenant that does not operate to make money (e.g. making weapons and armor for the grogs). So far I figure you drop the 36 points needed to keep the business going to 0, but have the covenant pay what the character would have earned. However, the whole x2, x3, x6 thing makes no sense at this point. I suppose, but haven't found, that you simply add an apprentice's Labor Points but subtract what they need for their income normally, and thus do a similar thing for a workshop in a covenant. Anyway, it's looking really messy.


No it doesn't. It says they are worth the same -time-, not the same -sums-. However, I think there's a flaw here and its should read 12/18/36.

Well i wasn't entering the details, because it's written in bold that there is no formal conversion and that the calculations are only there for players ideas. But thanks for the reminder.

And for 2) really nobody has an idea? :frowning:

I'd just have the storyteller rule on an ability. Perhaps Bargain? It depends on exactly what he's doing. Once the ability is chosen, you can just use the rules.


Ok so you put charact + (ability X) where the crafter uses charact + craft X or the worker com + profession X.

That makes sense.

I'll ask my SG then, and i think its gonna be the ability where i will have the 11 score ^^.

A little thread necromancy here...

So, I'm still really stuck on this. I'm also stuck with regard to workshop improvement in this case. My companion character is in the middle of setting up his workshop. :open_mouth: Has anyone figured out how to deal with this successfully?


I think that the "dropping" part is the "you invest into your workshop" so you / your covenant does need to do nothing.