Confused about some of the Enchantment rules.

I'm afraid my parens was somewhat negligent in training me in the art of magical enchantments. While tribunal deliberates my claims against my former master, I have a few rudimentary questions concerning hermetic enchantment that I hope someone will be able to help me with.

Verditius Magic:

Do I have this right?

This virtue allow a magus to add a relevant Craft score to his Lab Total while at the same time subtracting the same score from the amount of Vis required to open the item. The magus may also add his Philosophiae score to the Shape and Material bonus so long as the combined total does not exceed his Magic Theory score.

The (relevant) benefits apply to all enchanted devices.

Concerning Lesser Enchantments:

If the 1 season limitation is the only obstacle to creating a Lesser Enchantment, is it possible to create the device by using Expiry to reduce the amount of time required? Or would doing so be prohibited because the device would not otherwise be viable as a lesser enchantment?
"It does not allow him to instill effects he could not otherwise manage".

Elder Runes:

The Vis requirements in the example from page 128 make no sense to me, but no errata has been forthcoming. I would be very grateful if anyone could explain how the figures were arrived at.
(By my reckoning, Hephaestion should have spent 2 pawns of Vim Vis opening the wand for enchantment, 1 pawn of Rego Vis for inscribing the Ice rune, and 4 pawns of Terram Vis intilling the effect for a grand total of 7 pawns).

Also, does the increased Vis handling capacity (Philosophiae x MT) apply to all enchanted items, or only to those created using Elder Runes?

Maintaining Concentration:

If I understand correctly, this option permits the magus to use (and control) the item until he chooses to deactivate it; irregardless of uses per day, but the character must maintain concentration himself at the solar junctures (dawn & dusk).

Verditius Magic:

Yeh, sounds right to me

Concerning Lesser Enchantments:

Hmm, i'm not sure. I can see valid arguements for and against. I think i'd allow it, but I havn't given much thought to what possible abuses that may allow.

Elder Runes:

The example makes no sense to me either :blush:

Maintaining Concentration:

Again, sounds right to me.

Verditius magic- Yes, you are correct

Lesser- No. It takes one season to put the effect in. You must have a Lab total twice the effect level to do so. You can only use that on Invested items that allow you to 'bank' the points.

Elder Runes: Yes it seems to be wrong.
All instilled items have the capacity increased
(I think this should have been MT+Phil times two)

Thanks for the help everyone.

Verditius Magic

I was pretty sure I (finally) understood how that virtue worked, it's good to know I was right.

Lesser Enchantments

As Baron stated both interpretations seem reasonable, depending upon whether you take the "Lab Total must be double the Effect level" as being a minimum Lab Total restatement of the requirements to instill the effect in 1 season and thus potentially susceptible to Expiry or a hard and fast rule associated with Lesser Enchantments.

Based on the context, however, I was leaning toward Expiry being disallowed for Lesser Items.

Elder Runes:

I guess I'll report it to Mr. Chart as errata then...


For some reason I keep thinking that the enchantment ought to require additional uses per day (similar to the Sun +2 uses per day trick used to allow a continual effect). Even though it doesn't make any sense.

My take is that the item is the entity that is maintainng concentration and this concentration can not be passed to a wielder. Ergo the effect goes out at the next sunrse/sunset. A weilder may manipulate the effect but may not take over the concentrating duties

I'm not exactly sure how it works either (hence my asking).

The "Speech" bond power in ArM5 and a few other bond powers (Incorporeality, TMRE) describe the user having to maintain concentration at dawn and dusk. I don't quite know why, but again that's why I asked.

EDIT: I found the relevant quote.
...Effects left to their own concentration start to wear off at sunset and sunrise. At these times the wielder must concentrate on the effect for a few moments to perpetuate it until the next sunrise or sunset, whichever comes first.

My question had more to do with whether a 1 use/day effect could be maintained through both sunrise and sunset, or if two uses would be required. However, I'm starting to think a few extra uses could be a worthwhile addition anyway.

Reads to me as though 1 use/day would be enough, so long as you were able to concentrate on it when needed. Another option would be to include a constant Maintaining The Demanding Spell, and have it concentrate instead. But not if you're trying to make a lesser enchantment.

Also, after thinking further i'd probably allow expiry in a lesser enchantment. Not to reduce the time to create it, only to make it possible to create it at all. A magic item that wears out after 1 year probably wouldn't be too disruptive for the vis cost. And a item which wears out after 70 years would be overshadowed by newer creations anyway

First question is not "number of uses" but what is the effect Duration. A Sun Duration effect expires at sunrise/set unless you recast it.

A Concentration duration combined with "Device Maintains Concentration" is stated to lose concentration ove the sunrise/set period, and the wielder must provide concentration then or the effect fades. However "1 use per day" does cover that, as the extra concentration by the magus keeps the single original effect running (rather than triggering a new effect at sunrise/set).

There is a limit (unspecified) to the number of effects the magus can restore over the 2 minutes of sunrise/set (1 Diam).

Note the special box out for Constant Effect which specifically provides an exemption and states that it has "no flicker" but needs 2/day uses as well as the trigger...