Sure. Plenty of Greeks did argue the earth was spherical. One of the most important was Ptolemy. And yet - see "West Pole" in Ancient Magic re: Ptolemy's awareness that the earth isn't a real sphere, "Axis Mundi" in either RoP:M or Nile or BS&S, and how TC&TC treats the East as fading into Faerie Land. It can perhaps be argued that the Earth is curved, but it certainly ain't a sphere in canon.
1 Like
That does sound like a possibly fun effect tbh.
A ward does not allow a fire to carry, but -
An effect to produce a sufficient volume of fire to lift a target might surround it, making a ward fairly desirable. So would a Corpus effect to make you as light as possible.
So:
Creo Ignem
Tower of Fire
R: Self, D: Sun, T: Self
Surrounds the magus in a cylinder of fire. This cylinder naturally rises to the sphere of fire, the topmost elemental layer of the sublunar realm. The cylinder carries anything light enough up with it, but only the lightest objects can be carried by fire, such as ash. The speed of the lift is dependent on the intensity of the fire, as indicated by damage. Basic lift speed is similar to the speed of a feather falling without interference by wind. Faster speeds require more intense fire and corresponding damage. Once the flame rises to the sphere of fire, it halts once it has reached its natural level; the more intense the flame, the higher the level.
This basic spell assumes a +5 damage in an unnatural shape, a cylinder.
(Fire in unnatural shape, 5, +3 Sun) Level 20
Why a magus would want to set themselves on fire to enter a realm of equally intense fire is left for the reader to contemplate. Returning to the ground level is a simple matter of allowing the spell to end and allowing natural gravitas to assert itself.
It's unclear to me how long it would take to float to the sphere of fire; there are variables to consider.
2 Likes
Muto Corpus(Ignem) along the lines of Chariot of Zeus could be an alternative as well.
1 Like
While fire and gas as a propulsion (jet engine) as opposed to as a travel medium (carried on wind) seems against paradigm, would explosions be a more understood Mythic Europe concept?
I'm comically imagining someone who ragdolls themselves around on thunderclaps.
1 Like
As far as I understand, the first reliable man-produced explosions are those from gunpowder, which isn't known in Mythic Europe yet (Mid to late 1200s IRL), and which probably should be explained using Mythic Alchemy or some similar supernatural power if ever introduced in the setting.
1 Like
Maybe it wasnt known in historical europe. but in mythic, with all that magic and all the SC, which played by a modern player? we had a campaign around 1000, and the mages invented black powder, printing press and electricity ... .
The trick that took me some time to understand with Mythic Europe setting is that, it is not people knowledge that is flawed, thus physic should work like in our world, the physic of Mythic Europe is the one as described by the ancients (Aristotle & cie). In other words: they are right, and trying to apply modern physic in Mythic Europe won't work. I just re-read a topic in A&A on projectile speed that does not correlate to kinetic energy and damage.
For example, if you follow the background, you cannot draw electricity power from lightning bolt. No Auram magus playing with a kite will become Benjamin Franklin, because this is not how the world works. It was and is still a bit tricky for me to wrap my head around, because this knowledge is close enough to look familiar, yet there are plenty of differences that requires my scientific mind (chemical engineer...) to forget about what I know to realise "No, that does not work like that".
For example, God is Almighty and it is not by making people stop believing in him that he will move away or become weaker (Divine Aura might subside but it is only a side effect) - he will remain the ultimate power, who decides when/if he wants to intervene (or his agents), and with absolute results if need be.
Another example, there is no South Africa - beyond the Fire belt, there is nothing earthly.
Now, if you want to put that aside, and consider that the science of the ancients is just there way to describe what they saw and how they were able to understand it, therefore is flawed and incomplete, and decides that our modern physic is really what drives the world, that can work as well, but it will be a very different game.
Once you have magic that can break basic Thermodynamic laws, not even the sky is the limit.
3 Likes
There is no accesible world beyond the Torrid Zone, there is no reason to believe the world ends there, it's just currently inaccesible because the Divine disables wards on the laser zone.
If that ever stopped happening, and indeed it is very possible, the southern half of the world may become explorable by Magi (Or anyone with Greater Immunity to the not-a-laser).
Neither is the east actually 100% Faerie, the book leaves it open-ended on if it truly is Faerie like, or it's just that the people didn't bother to explore (Or return!).
I do agree that the physics are weird to grab around, but things like propelling yourself upwards by using Fire's natural property of flying to its sphere, is something doable within the physics presented.
Controlled explosions as a method of travel is quite possible, it's essentially being thrown mid-air by another entity. Now, the fact that if you want to do that you are better served just using Rego Corpus is another matter, but while most things modern day people may want to discover aren't there to discover, the flying birthday balloon or something is doable!
2 Likes
Also, and returning to the topic of the thread... I don't dislike this house per se, but I noticed that not a single time had I used an NPC from it, not even as background characters, which should speak for itself.
House: Bonisagus
Reason: Peace-keepers through Intrigue are hard to play, or to SG due to the scrying problems and Magi covering their own tracks with Magic to the point mundane investigation can turn up very little. The researchers of the House are in an even worse position as they are relegated to being McGuffins.
Concept: The(Spymaster)Sherlock HolmesReason I like this Concept: Essentially, a Maga Trianomae who uses advanced spells and such for the express purpose of uncovering conspiracies and then claiming she connected the dots that clearly couldn't be connected by a mere mortal. However, as it's impossible to prove any Scrying accusation on herself (She even lets herself be examined by Mentem magics!) everyone believes she's the greatest detective there is. Bonus points if she has an anachronistic detective garb she ordered a Veriditius to make to "Uncover things!", or so she says!.
3 Likes
Apparently paper lanterns were used by the mongols in a battle against the poles in 1241. Imo this is permissable under the metaphysic and also there's a historical example to justify it's existence within the reasonable scope of a game
Oh dear. "Axis Mundi" does appear neither in RoP:M nor in BS&S or LotN. The "Axis Magica" or Hypostasis from HoH:MC p.55ff is a concept from Criamon theories of individual salvation.
The "West Pole" in AM is a place in a Faerie regio, and the Mongols of the east in TC&TC p.179 ff The Mythic Steppes can be mundane or mythic. Bur even in p.183 Mythic Mongols we have:
The exact nature of Genghis Khan and his Mongol hordes is best left to individual troupes to determine, based on the need of their saga and the resources available.
The people of the East by such rulings can well slowly "fade into Faerie" - mostly to avoid messing with Buddhist cosmology. But this has nothing to do with the shape of the earth.
We clearly have A&A p.27 Geography summarizing the old scholars:
It is plainly evident to all with reason that the earth is not flat but rather a ball.
Yes, there was the apologist Lactantius going against them. He caused Augustinus (in De genesi ad litteram, book 1 chapter 19 paragraph 39) to admonish Christian preachers not to argue against proven cosmological statements of the old scholars with badly understood literal bible snippets. But the idea of medieval scholars espousing the idea of a flat earth is mainly a 19th century misconception.
5 Likes
I did not look up the book prior to writing that portion and got it wrong with Axis Mundi. What I was thinking about is called the Torrid Zone - that line South which is probably impenetrable due to being pure fire and possibly enforced by the Divine - and the other side is hinted to be the Magic Realm (see BS&S). Admitedly, sagas can diverge there, much like the mongols which may or may not be mundane. But even A&A has a great ocean splitting Africa in half in the Torrid Zone and describes the area as impossible to reach, similar to BS&S. At the very least, because the elemental theory of the era is correct in the game system, this tells me the Africa which we know it doesn't exist beyond that point even if you somehow travel into the southern hemisphere magically.
The entire place has a Magic Aura, and the inhabitants Magic Might. It's not a Faerie regio. And most importantly, it's the westernmost point on Earth, mystically. "In the internal logic of the regio, there is no real west beyond the edge of the Garden. The garden’s western edge, inside the regio, is bound by a limitless, inky ocean, which churns reflected stars. This body of water, the Twilight Sea, is an entrance into the Magical realm, which is described in more detail in Realms of Power: Magic. Ptolemy knew this: it is why he used the Islands for his Zero Longitude. In a mystical sense, the caldera is the West Pole." Is it a regio? Yes. Perhaps. But if the westernmost point of the world in a mystical sense is in a high aura regio whose sea fades further west into the Magic Realm - that doesn't tell me you can sail past that point in the Mundane Realm either. YSMV.
Regarding the East, I seem to recall it was design decision not to include much of India and China (etc.) in publications because the farther you go from Europe, the more you step into myths territory, and troupes can decide if those lands even exist.
Look - yes the Earth may be spherical. Whether the rest of the world outside of the known quarter is accessible or part of the various Realms is a different issue. If the Earth seems spherical to astronomers, but beyond those lines the rest of the world fade into the Magic and Faerie Realms, and the borders of the known quarter are enforced by the Divine, then the notion of sphere is not that useful because there may or may not be anything beyond the quarter which is known. Either way, Ars doesn't rely on a modern understanding of science at all to define the world - this is my main point.
If you wish to continue this discussion, I suggest we create a separate topic.
1 Like
And that is highly original if you reread: "In the internal logic of the regio, there is no real west beyond the edge of the Garden." No need to go any further here. But it is indeed a Magic and not a Faerie regio.
And that was the point of my answering post. Not sorting inhabitable and uninhabitable zones of the Earth Mythic Europe is on.
No need to continue or set up a further thread from my side. All well!
i feel so dumb for forgetting that. thanks!
And thanks to everyone for their replies 
1 Like