So there is still 400 points to spend beyond the actual building of the covenant?
You get 400 build points for the things that points can buy; books, vis, vis sources, magic items, lab texts, specialists, and money stocks.
The Virtue of Dedicated covenant and Julia's efforts have basically bought the Covenant's structure and the labs. So in that regard, no the points have not even been touched yet. I did offera point spending option with lots of vis, but nothing has been agreed upon yet.
I would like some agreement soon though.
I like the lots of vis option.
I like the idea of a lot of vis and a few good books. 400 pts. 50 pts on vis is 250 pawns. That is a lot. 200 pts more gets us 40 per year. that leaves 150 for some decent books
OK, that's a slight change on the vis option I did, a bit less vis per year but works fine for me. with the 150 points left, do you want it all to be spent on books? Any money, specialists or magic itmes?
OK, we need to start gettng back on this topic. We'll soon be actually casting the spell to create the covenant, we need to make sure the design is how you'd like it. So let's revive this discussion and come up with some final plans.
PArt of the problem is that it is so hard to keep the picture. Could we get a thread that is covenant stats that only qcipher updates (updates not adding messages) that lists exactly what we have for covenant so far and points unspent.
Obviously the standard level 35 spell to create a tower will not be enough space. (30' diameter for 10 floors (2 above ground, 8 below inversion). Are we getting a single spell of level 40 (10 space) or two spells of level 35?
Do we need to be casting a bunch of pits of gaping earth to get rid of all the dirt there for when we summon the tower? If so, we will need casting tablet for that spell.
That sounds like a good idea. I'll post a new thread regarding that, but I don't have mych time to add any material just yet.
As for the spell, it is Siobhan's and the rest of the Magi's understanding that you have commissioned the spell to be designed by an old and powerful Bonisagus, who will design the spell and cast it also. The spell is supposed to create the entire covenant underground, under the hills of the area. Then the remaining vis will be used to cast a spell from a tablet to create your labs.
For the design thread, I was thinking of the following
Covenant
Known description of it
Boon 1: Aura
Boon 2: close to civilization (etc)
Boon 3: To be discovered (st keeping hidden
Boon 4: Players much pick from X or Y
Hook 1: To be discovered)
Hook 2: Players must pick from A or B
Points:
Library: books are such (x points)
Vis: Points for XX Vis (details of known vis, points for vis to be discovered)
points unspent
This way we know what has been assigned, what we are still needing to decide. If there is a hidden boon or hook that we will be discovering, just list it as to be determined or hidden. If there are points to spend, list the points open and as they are spent, update (edit) the covenant stat post so that we know what is still undecided and needing to be dealt with.
Please, can we keep covenant building/discussion to this thread and the covenant details thread to become a notice or always at top and only have the post with the details of the covenant.
The reason for it to always have its own thread is so that we ahve a single simple thread that has latest details and no need to scroll through pages of discussion to figure out what we actually have decided.
As someone that has been managing the books for my offline saga. !00 silver a year doesn't go far wtih 6 mages, 3 companions, 27/28 villagers (grogs, farmers, huners, etc....). That is normal expenditure. You still have the issue of paying for the fair and everything needed for the fair.
The main things left with covenant design is the expenditure of the 400 points. If we can come to a final decision on that, and also what specifically it's spent on. If you want 100 points on books we need to know what books.
Also the total amount of silver you get each year is 200, 100 of that is still undecided in how you make it. With the debt Hook, you pay 50 pounds, leaving a remainder of 150. Money can be tight no doubt.
To speed our efforts in creating a covenant I have the following suggestion. We stick to this division of the resources as previously suggested and then we divide our effort. Someone write up some info about the books and so on. What we have to decide upon is:
• Vis sources (40pawns a year) and stores (250pawns)
• Books (150points)
• Perhaps someone should make up a drawing of the covenant
Personally I can write up stats about a few good books on the mystical arts and then present the list. Then we at least have a list to discuss.
The library of our covenant
Here is a suggestion. For 150pts of library we get this.
In the centre of the library there is a scriptorium. The library is small and thus the chamber serves as both. I have used the rules from Covenants to make this scriptorium. I have tried to make the books both interesting and good for study as well fitting towards what could be given to a spring covenant.
The scriptorium (30pts for lab + 10pts for magical item; total 40p)
Virtues
- Greater feature, desk
- Magical light (Bought as magic item)
- Magical heat (Bought as magic item)
- Person (the librarian and or visitors)
Flaws
- Elementary
- Greater focus, desk
Stats
Size: -3
Texts: +7
General quality: -4
Health: +1 (+3 with the covenant bonus)
Aesthetics: +5
Safety: -1
Ignem: +1
Imaginem: +1
Mentem: +1
Magical items
Magical light: CrIg 4 (Strong as daylight on a cloudy day) +1 Touch +2 sun + 2 Room +1 Unnatural (no apparent source of the light, the rooms is just bright), +4lv constant effect; 34lv
Magical heat: As chamber of breezes but with a Ignem requisite too make the room warm and then a constant effext; total level 14.
Books
On elementals and the elements. Connections and differences. Vol. 1, by Felix Ex Bonisagus, Magic lore tractati Q10
On elementals and the elements. Connections and differences. Vol. 2, by Felix Ex Bonisagus, Muto tractati Q10
On elementals and the elements. Connections and differences. Vol. 4, by Felix Ex Bonisagus, Aquam tractati Q10
The wizards shield, by Jacquelina Ex Tremere, Summae Parma Magica, Lv 3, Q13
An introduction to the fae. Hunting and destroying, by Clio Ex flambeau, Faerie lore summae, Lv 2 Q 8
Hermetic creation and it’s limitations, by Iovis Ex Bonisagus, Creo summae Lv. 10 Q10.
The fault and errors in Hermetic creation and it’s limitations, by Bonifatius Ex Bonisagus, Creo tractati Q 11
Parts of correspondences between Iovis Ex Bonisagus and Bonifatius Ex Bonisagus, Creo tractatus Q1
Spells
Casting tablet of Aegis of the hearth Lv 30
I like it except the books
I would drop the following books:
The wizards shield, by Jacquelina Ex Tremere, Summae Parma Magica, Lv 3, Q13
It is only good for two seaons study at most but huge point cost as ability summae. A level 10 tractus might be much better (gets parma 1 to parma 2) if we really want to have it. I personally don't think they would give a new covenant access to a book on parma. I expect considering how tightly controlled the teaching of parma is, books on parma would be banned to keep apprentices from getting their hands on it accidentally.
An introduction to the fae. Hunting and destroying, by Clio Ex flambeau, Faerie lore summae, Lv 2 Q 8
Another ability sumae with high cost. I might drop this because we really do need some arts books and your list only has 3 arts covered (muto, creo, aquam)
Parts of correspondences between Iovis Ex Bonisagus and Bonifatius Ex Bonisagus, Creo tractatus Q1
Almost no will EVER spend a season reading such a book and considering the writing rules, I can't see anyone writing a book so poor.
This frees up 34 points which could get us 2-4 more tractii on other arts. If we drop the magical heat from the library (something to add in the future), that means 44 points. THat means say two level 10 tractii and 2 level 12 tractii giving us 7 of 15 arts with something.
Sure we could change some books. The letters are made up with the aid of the rules for correspondences in Covenant and I had one point left. Thought they where a fun addition to the other Creo titles. I thought that a book on the fae would be good as we are going to have some of these next doors. But sure I can understand you points about the need for more arts. How about this we change these books:
• The wizards shield, by Jacquelina Ex Tremere, Summae Parma Magica, Lv 3, Q13
• An introduction to the fae. Hunting and destroying, by Clio Ex flambeau, Faerie lore summae, Lv 2 Q 8
• Parts of correspondences between Iovis Ex Bonisagus and Bonifatius Ex Bonisagus, Creo tractatus Q1
And replace them with:
• Beyond the apprentices parma, by Jacquelina Ex Tremere, Parma Magica tractati, Q10
• Why ask when you can know?, by Orlandus Ex Guericus, Intellego tractati, Q11
• Might over mind, by Naso ex Jerbiton, Mentem tractai Q 11
That leaves 2pts and for those we can add a lab text on words of unbroken silence or something else that is lv. 10 or less. With these changes we cover, Cr, In, Mu, Aq, Me. A little better.
I think we should keep the scriptorium as it is, it is 10points for both items and getting rid of one should not help us much.
I still don't like a book: tracti or summae of Parma Magica. It is too easy to get lost, stolen or apprentices reading it before they complete apprenticeship considering the rules regarding learning parma in this tribunal.
maybe instead of parma tractus, we get a number of spells:
Perhaps the 3 pts for the heating the frigid hall, 3 pts for a sun duration lamp without flame (the spells used to make the two magic items for covenant, or at least related) so we can all get those benefits for our lab eventually.
Then maybe another spell or two for last few points.
I'm loving this discussion (and long over due IMO). I'll leave the decisions on the books to you.
My issue is how are you paying for the lab? You have labs for everyone in the group as part of the basic payment, but this extra lab/library would have to be paid for as extra (especially the enhancements of it), and that's kind of expensive. If you have taken this into account, please show the point breakdown, I don't have my books handy right now.
I can agree on the point regarding the parma. We are a junior covenant and perhaps such important texts are not within our reach. So we change that to a number of lab texts how about this for a library. I noticed that I made a miscalculation of the cost of the magic items. The lab cost if from the library total.
The scriptorium (30pts for lab + 20pts for magical item; total 50p)
Virtues
- Greater feature, desk (20pts)
- Magical light (Bought as magic item) (14pts)
- Magical heat (Bought as magic item) (6pts)
- Person (the librarian and or visitors) (0pts)
Flaws
- Elementary (-20pts)
- Greater focus, desk (-20pts)
Stats
Size: -3
Texts: +7
General quality: -4
Health: +1 (+3 with the covenant bonus)
Aesthetics: +5
Safety: -1
Ignem: +1
Imaginem: +1
Mentem: +1
Magical items
Magical light: CrIg 4 (Strong as daylight on a cloudy day) +1 Touch +2 sun + 2 Room +1 Unnatural (no apparent source of the light, the rooms is just bright), +4lv constant effect; 34lv
Magical heat: As chamber of breezes but with a Ignem requisite too make the room warm and then a constant effext; total level 14.
Books (Points cost listed here in the order as they appear. 10+10+10+20+11+11+11= 83)
• On elementals and the elements. Connections and differences. Vol. 1, by Felix Ex Bonisagus, Magic lore tractati Q10
• On elementals and the elements. Connections and differences. Vol. 2, by Felix Ex Bonisagus, Muto tractati Q10
• On elementals and the elements. Connections and differences. Vol. 4, by Felix Ex Bonisagus, Aquam tractati Q10
• Hermetic creation and it’s limitations, by Iovis Ex Bonisagus, Creo summae Lv. 10 Q10.
• The fault and errors in Hermetic creation and it’s limitations, by Bonifatius Ex Bonisagus, Creo tractati Q 11
• Why ask when you can know?, by Orlandus Ex Guericus, Intellego tractati, Q11
• Might over mind, by Naso ex Jerbiton, Mentem tractai Q 11
Spells (Points cost listed here in the order as they appear 12+3+2+2+2+2=23pts)
• Casting tablet of Aegis of the hearth Lv 30
• Lamp without flame (modified for sun duration) Lv 15 If used in a lab regularly it will give the magical light virtue and either -1 to safety or +1 to warping (this is the disadvantage stated in covenants for spell casting on a regular basis in a lab)
• Breeze of warmth, CrAu(Ig) Base level 1 +1 Touch +2 Sun duration +1 Indoors +1 Ignem; Total level 10. Creates a warm breeze in a chamber of sun duration. If used in a lab regularly it will give the magical heat virtue and either -1 to safety or +1 to warping (this is the disadvantage stated in covenants for spell casting on a regular basis in a lab)
• Sorcerer’s bolt of flame CrIg lv. 10 (Net wizards grimoire)
• Flare bit CrAu(Ig) lv. 10 (Net wizards grimoire)
Total amount of points spent: 30 (lab) + 20 (magical items) + 83 (books) +23 (spells) = 156
So I made a few errors when I made the counting. What shall we remove? I think that we should remove the first volume on elementals and use those four points that remain in such case to either get more spells or upgrade the creo summae. I don’t think that we should remove magical items from the lab, they make our library seem grander than it is.
Now here is a suggestion on how we will split our vis income:
Total income of 40pawns a year
Cr 10 (from the standing stone)
In 0
Mu 0
Pe 0
Re 5
An 5
Aq 0
Au 0
Co 5
He 5
Ig 0
Im 0
Me 5
Te 0
Vi 5
Here is a suggestion about our vis stores 250pawns
Cr 20
In 20
Mu 20
Pe 20
Re 20
An 15
Aq 15
Au 15
Co 15
He 15
Ig 15
Im 15
Me 15
Te 15
Vi 15
Just curious about the lab...do you really need it? There will be chambers large enough to use as a library and even a podium, with the addition of those magical items it easily becomes a library and saves some points for you.
Just throwing that out there for you.
I like the idea of the library/Scriptorum specialized for texts. (If you have magical heating and magical lighting virtues, doesn't that count that you don't have to pay points for the magical item seperately (perhaps lab walls are enchanted so they are lit up)
Heating the Frigid Hall which is to heat a room (CrIg) is Base 2, +2 room, +2 sun, +1 touch or level 15 spell. Level 19 for magic item if you make it usable twice per day by trigger. THere is no way that you can get a chamber of spring breezes with this effect as well for lower level. Any item that is true constant effect is +2 manitudes for sun, +1 level for 2/day and then +3 level for environmental trigger.
Reduce the Me vis to 4, increase Vim to 6 (we need 6 per year for our Aegis)