Covenant design discussion

I think books at less than level 10 may end up being nearly useless, unless and until apprentices are around.
My expectation and experience is that most players have Arts scores of at least 5. Someone may suprise me, though.

Consider the Creo and Imaginemen primers, Level 6 Quality 21. Yes, it will advance someone from 0 to 6 in a season, but 1) it's not all that useful to a character with an Art score of 5, and 2, would you really want your apprentice to get to an Art score of 6 in a season? Maybe yes, maybe no. But if you're score is at 6 or still at 5 because you never had a chance to read the primer, since it wasn't really worth all that much time, I don't think you would want your apprentice to be as good as or better than you are in one season.

The books created with 250 bp are open for trade with other covenants, should you wish. The authors have passed, or Apollodorus has done sufficient favors that these books are not bound by Cow and Calf.
Books you bring with you in 75xps are bound by Cow and Calf.
Also, I'd like to see some names attached to these for additional flavor.
If any books are on the Arts of Muto and Imaginem at level 10 up to quality 13, they would likely be written by Apollodorus. Also lesser quality books, 10 or 11 quality would be possible for the arts of Intellego and Mentem.
I also highly recommend creating a vis source that your character would be interested in. Having stocks are good, but renewing sources are better, and thus more costly. If you buy only stocks with your build points, you're all but telling me that your character wants to go on a vis hunt for his preferred type of vis (and that's ok, too).

No, these are separate. 250 bps exists with Apollodorus at the covenant site, in whatever forms you choose. Consider these things he's promissed you over years of correspondence, and you've done some checking through other sources, and he might actually have everything he says he does.

The 75 bps are an additional bump, if you will, these are persona effects you've accumulated over your career to date, maybe new covenant warming gifts or heirlooms from your parens. If you have a book, it's covered by Cow and Calf, though. These are yours and yours alone, and may be shared at the player's discretion. The 250 bps are covenant property, donated from Apollodorus' largesse.

75 personal build points for Alexei:

  1. 25 pawns of Vis (10 Muto, 10 Corpus, 5 Rego) 5 points (rewards from Flambeau meetings and wizard's melees). The Muto is in the form of braids of golden hair, allegedly from a Fae princess. The Corpus is in the form of small clay disks with the symbol for Corpus on one side, the other side contains the Covenant symbol of Castra Solis (Domus Magna of House Flambeau). The Rego vis is the strange mummified insect shell of a rather large bee, supposedly the King Bee of a massive hive from Afrique.

  2. 20 pounds of silver 2 points the silver, gold and jewels come from a long and succesful career as an elite mercenary.

  3. Sergeant Gunnar Stockhausen A grizzled teacher of martial disciplines. 12 points

  4. Vis source 30 points (6 pawns of Vis per year) as a long standing member of the MIlites, Alexei is entitled to a tithe of vis from the various Magi who have enjoyed the protection of the Milites. The vis comes in a variety of forms, it can differ every year in both shape and form, delivered by Redcap or Milites.

  5. Bag of food. This marvelous bag was given to Alexei by his Parens Tristan. Despite its name, it's not actually a bag of food, but rather a bag that transforms foods placed into it into a small simple leaf. A month's worth of food for a single person can easily be carried and stay preserved while within it the entire time, and weigh no more than a small bag of leaves. The leaf is of different types and shapes and colors depending on the kind of food that was put in. Removing the leaf from the bag restores it to food, and putting it back in changes it again. (Based on the spell Bag of Feathers from Magi of Hermes pg 13, only difference is that it's on a bag and changes the food into leaves) Base 4, +1 Touch, +2 Sun, +2 Group +1 Requisite, 2 uses per day +1, Environmental Trigger (Sun) +3 total level: 34, 14 build points.

  6. Aesculapian Ring: A magical ring that Alexei claimed after slaying a renounced wizard. He had to pay a Bonisagus Magus in order to discover its uses and that it wasn't in fact trapped. The ring is designed to help a wounded Magus heal as well as resist the pain of his wounds and thus allow some ability to continue to work while recovering. It has 2 effects:

Heal the wounded wizard CrCo 25 provides a +15 healing bonus to the wearer. R: Touch D: Sun T: Individual Base: 10 +1 Range, +2 Duration, 2 uses per day +1 total effect level 26.
Mute the debilitating pain ReCo 25 Prevents the feeling of wounds and fatigue. R: Touch D: Sun T: Individual Base 10 +1Range, +2 Duration, 2 uses per day +1 total effect level 26.

The ring has a few drawbacks. It has no Penetration, so the wearer's Parma and MR must be suppressed when activated. Usually the Magus will turn the power of the ring on right after his Parma falls at Sunrise/Sunset and then raises his Parma. Not being able to feel pain and fatigue has some drawbacks as well, as one can actively hurt oneself or make their wounds worse through activity and not feel it. Sleep can also be difficult to come by if not actually sleepy. To activate the healing effect the ring is turned towards the thumb and then turned back. To activate the pain and fatigue resistance the ring is turned towards the pinky and turned back. Alexei has offered the ring as payment on more than one occasion as he stayed as a guest in the various Covenants of Germany.

Ring Build points: 12 total.

Not sure if this is the final choice for those 75 build points, but I'd like to see if this is acceptable.

I have to review the items. Pending that, I'm fine with this.

I take it, that you have plans for the 4 other grogs and you're using part of your 75 bps to get a fifth? That's fine, by the way.

Right, I was going to make 4 'regular' Grogs, but I figured that one that is qualified as a teacher should be paid for with points. He's past his prime as a warrior but excellent at teaching. The break down for his Build Points is Communication +2 Teaching 5 Martial Ability (various) 5. So he can teach a group of people (up to 25!) martial abilities and give each 10 XP per season, more if he teaches only one or 2. He can get a Turb in ship-shape pretty quickly.

So, each effect is level 26. Each effect would cost roundup(26/5)=6 *2=12 bps for a total of 24 bps.

Woops! Definitely right. Let me take a look at how I want to do this.

75 personal build points for Alexei:

  1. 35 pawns of Vis (10 Muto, 15 Corpus, 10 Rego) 7 points (rewards from Flambeau meetings and wizard's melees). The Muto is in the form of braids of golden hair, allegedly from a Fae princess. The Corpus is in the form of small clay disks with the symbol for Corpus on one side, the other side contains the Covenant symbol of Castra Solis (Domus Magna of House Flambeau). The Rego vis is the strange mummified insect shell of a rather large bee, supposedly the King Bee of a massive hive from Afrique.

  2. 20 pounds of silver 2 points the silver, gold and jewels come from a long and succesful career as an elite mercenary.

  3. Sergeant Gunnar Stockhausen A grizzled teacher of martial disciplines. 12 points

  4. Vis source 30 points (6 pawns of Vis per year) as a long standing member of the MIlites, Alexei is entitled to a tithe of vis from the various Magi who have enjoyed the protection of the Milites. The vis comes in a variety of forms, it can differ every year in both shape and form, delivered by Redcap or Milites.

  5. Aesculapian Ring: A magical ring that Alexei claimed after slaying a renounced wizard. He had to pay a Bonisagus Magus in order to discover its uses and that it wasn't in fact trapped. The ring is designed to help a wounded Magus heal as well as resist the pain of his wounds and thus allow some ability to continue to work while recovering. It has 2 effects:

Heal the wounded wizard CrCo 25 provides a +15 healing bonus to the wearer. R: Touch D: Sun T: Individual Base: 10 +1 Range, +2 Duration, 2 uses per day +1 total effect level 26.
Mute the debilitating pain ReCo 25 Prevents the feeling of wounds and fatigue. R: Touch D: Sun T: Individual Base 10 +1Range, +2 Duration, 2 uses per day +1 total effect level 26.

The ring has a few drawbacks. It has no Penetration, so the wearer's Parma and MR must be suppressed when activated. Usually the Magus will turn the power of the ring on right after his Parma falls at Sunrise/Sunset and then raises his Parma. Not being able to feel pain and fatigue has some drawbacks as well, as one can actively hurt oneself or make their wounds worse through activity and not feel it. Sleep can also be difficult to come by if not actually sleepy. To activate the healing effect the ring is turned towards the thumb and then turned back. To activate the pain and fatigue resistance the ring is turned towards the pinky and turned back. Alexei has offered the ring as payment on more than one occasion as he stayed as a guest in the various Covenants of Germany.

Ring Build points: 24 total.

Not sure if this is the final choice for those 75 build points, but I'd like to see if this is acceptable..

Edit I dropped the bag of food item. While I like it, it's easily made as an item or spell. It was 14 points, I took the 12 and finished off the ring and added more vis to his overall hoard.

I like all of the above boons. Since they are all covered by the 2 major hooks, we are already covered.

I like it too, does it meet the new requirements set out?

Yes, although it appears to be missing one minor boon to match the points in hooks selected (6 I selected and the two added)
Additionally another minor hook can be selected and then two minor boons (counting the missing one) can be added as well.

While the picture appears to defensive have some defensive properties, keep in mind it won't have any defensive capability without either stories involving improving the defensive structure or picking the appropriate boons. Either is appropriate.

Oh, and another thing. Your magi are older...something that helps with that above and beyond a longevity ritual can be nice, too.

Yeah, i was in a hurry earlier.

I liked all of the 7 boons suggested by Jonah.
I also liked 2 of the minor hooks he suggested. Together with the 2 major hooks chosen by our GM we would still have 1 minor boon to choose. Choosing "Healthy Feature" might be a good idea and fitting too so i suggest adding that.

What i am not sure about with the Regio idea: What is inside the regio? Who does live inside of it?
The magi? sure.
Our specialist, grogs and servants? probably.
What about our shepherds and sheep? What about our parchment production? I would think not. Do they live outside in a hamlet on the foot of the hillside? Or in the regio too? In case they live outside, do we have a small manor house outside the regio too?

I'm thinking along the same lines you are.
I agree that peasants would be in a small hamlet somewhere close to the base of Mont Beuvray. A manor house would exist in the mundane world. It could've been built around the regio entrance hiding and protecting it. It could be of sufficient size to house all the magi, in apperance, and some magi may prefer to live on the mundane side. The aura will cover the entirety of the top of the mount, and it also would cover the extent of the regio discovered to date. The top of Mont Beuvray is quite large, nearly .75 square miles, so there is room for a lot of industry, those could be outside the regio in outbuildings close to the manor house.

The Regio could house more extensive ruins I'm thinking. It would make sense that a mythical people/group already associated with Bibracte might have lived there or perhaps retreated there to live out their days as the mundane world forgot about them.

A decent entrance would be some of the exterior ruins in the mundane world. I may have missed it, what's the break down of the Aura inside and out?

Also it now looks like we have 3 sources of income; paper/vellum, shepherding, and winemaking. Or would vellum and shepherding overlap? While the sheep might provide the skin for vellum, I would assume shepherding only provides meat and wool. Actually making vellum is a skilled process and alone with a captive buyer (the Order) could provide an extra income. That would mean taking the extra income virtue twice (not a bad idea). Then each income could be improved and we could be insulated against issues with any one of them. Spells could be developed also.

If that could be clarified and/or discussed.

There are two sources right now, winemaking hasn't produced income, as of yet. Apollodorus may have been a bit overzealous in his description. If you want two sources of income, pick parchment, shepherding (wool and meat production) or wine. If you pick parchment and wine, the wine production will generally be successful. I'm figuring that if parchment and wine are the income choices, the wool and meat production, incidental to parchment production, are consumed by the covenant.

Wine production is underway. Grapes have been planted about four years back, this is the second year that there will be a significant harvest, and then it needs to be turned into wine and cellared for a period of time. Last year's production hasn't been tasted, yet. If it's a boon, it'll be good. If it's not a boon, expect some stories right away, related to this, if you want to grow this as a money making enterprise.

Does that make sense?

That makes sense, and we can the say that shepherding effects cost savings using the covenant rules (maybe) but the wool and meat are not a source of income, just the paper.

What if we wanted to actually pay for the minor boon of extra income twice? Then we'd have 3 Typical sources of income. Would that be allowed? Just checking options.

Sure. You could increase the size of the herd or lose any cost savings suggested (I think that's a reasonable idea), either or. However, currently, the wool is homespun, so you probably need a professional weaver to create a good commercial product, and professional butchers to properly cure and preserve meat for commercial purposes.

Also, morvan hams are a regional specialty, raising pigs is another option for income purposes that is consistent with the setting.
Other income sources are fine, or consider picking wealthy minor boon. Three income sources = 300 mythic pounds. Two income sources with the Wealthy minor boon makes one source into a Greater source of income (same total cost in boons) is 100+250=350. mythic pounds.

I am playing in another online saga which is totally different from this one, or at least from where i think this is gonna go. In the other saga, the focus is on long-term development, stories are only simulated shortly and there is not much in-character speech. We use the detailed income and expenditure rules and worry about long-term development of cost-saving measures so we might upgrade our labs a bit and still be able to support the additional upkeep and whatnot.

With the focus much more on stories and in-character action, i dont wanna worry about income and expenditures on top. So i suggest we just take either Wealthy or Secondary Income (and i think once is sufficient) as a boon and stop worrying about money. Anything reasonable can be purchased. We set a reasonable upper limit for lab upkeep (maybe 3?) so that those who want to utilize the extensive lab rules from Covenants know what they can work with.

This sounds good to me. I second the motion :smiley: