Covenant Development

[Salutor]

@MTKnife

I think she definitely needs to be able to leave the regio at will. I was going to say "or would she really maintain a lab there?", although I suppose she does have Arcadian travel, which could probably get her out of there at a pinch. Maybe we say the entrance condition is having been invited in by an inhabitant/native/some variant which includes the 'creek fae' and could either include or not include Viola once she's settled? Alternatively offering a sacrifice could get you either unlimited or time limited access, which is probably more in keeping with the theories behind the original story (but if magi specific would probably have made getting Portia in to the regio to cast her spell tricky).

Both options work fine, but each would probably need to be represented as a different sort of Virtue/Flaw. I'm not sure which ones--it seems like the fact that no one else can get in easily should be a Virtue, but I don't see anything in Covenants that closely matches that (Shrouded isn't really right)

There's the Impregnable minor supernatural flaw? Impact is -2 Aesthetics. Presumably it's a flaw because the advantages don't lend themselves to being a part of the lab stats.

[MTKnife]

@Salutor

I'm inclined to just say "let's go with what we've already established" on the presence or otherwise of the romans - it's likely to get confusing otherwise, and I'd rather not change the story in the middle of it.

How about a relatively minor change? Let's say that Roman worshippers of Neptune appeared at one point, thereby creating Neptune in the regio--he never displaced Poseidon, but he attracted Halia's attention, resulting in the infidelity that brought down the curse. How would that work?

Scott

[MTKnife]

@Salutor

There's the Impregnable minor supernatural flaw? Impact is -2 Aesthetics. Presumably it's a flaw because the advantages don't lend themselves to being a part of the lab stats.

Yeah, that one's sort of close, but it's supposed to be something that requires powerful magic to overcome. The locked regio isn't exactly the same thing, but it's more or less analogous. The Disguised Flaw is similar--a penalty to Aesthetics. That means a -1 or -2 to Aesthetics would be appropriate (I'd lean toward a -2), regardless of what we call the Flaw.

Scott

[Salutor]

@MTKnife

@Salutor

I'm inclined to just say "let's go with what we've already established" on the presence or otherwise of the romans - it's likely to get confusing otherwise, and I'd rather not change the story in the middle of it.

How about a relatively minor change? Let's say that Roman worshippers of Neptune appeared at one point, thereby creating Neptune in the regio--he never displaced Poseidon, but he attracted Halia's attention, resulting in the infidelity that brought down the curse. How would that work?

Scott

Yes, I think something like that works. I don't think there are many other problems - the ghosts are already greek.

@MTKnife

@Salutor

There's the Impregnable minor supernatural flaw? Impact is -2 Aesthetics. Presumably it's a flaw because the advantages don't lend themselves to being a part of the lab stats.

Yeah, that one's sort of close, but it's supposed to be something that requires powerful magic to overcome. The locked regio isn't exactly the same thing, but it's more or less analogous. The Disguised Flaw is similar--a penalty to Aesthetics. That means a -1 or -2 to Aesthetics would be appropriate (I'd lean toward a -2), regardless of what we call the Flaw.

I think the -2 Aesthetics works.

[MTKnife]

Missed this post the first time:

@Salutor

Well, if Viola doesn't want it...

More seriously, Gregorius knows that he's young enough to have potential problems being seen as a serious leader of the covenant by outside magi. He doesn't think Viola is great covenant leader material either, though (plus she's far to ready to sacrifice things to pagan gods and generally drives him up the wall). So if Viola says she doesn't want the position, he's not going to push her to take it. It would still have been far better as Tasia than him, though.

The charter requires three years of maintaining a sanctum at the covenant before you're eligable for membership, which makes fast-tracking someone from outside in difficult unless we have a large time jump (or change the charter).

For the moment, Viola can serve, formally at least, as the leader. With only two magi as members, it's not terribly internally important who's in charge, anyway, but having Viola to present to outsiders probably makes more sense.

Scott

[MTKnife]

I was just looking back through the "Haunted Covenant" story, which, rather inappropriately, includes the entire discussion on how to set up the labs. I noticed that I ended up making the cave labs much bigger than planned, and the one Gregorius picked is Size +4. Salutor, do you really want the lab to that big? Given his Magic Theory score of 4, his maximum Refinement is 1, which would produce a base Safety of -3 in such a big lab.

If that's not what you want, let me know what size is best, and I'll just change the scale of the map.

Scott

[Salutor]

It's the occupied size rather than the actual size which matters for safety, so it's not currently as big a problem as it could be. I I took the free structure virtue Spacious (lab stats are on Gregorius' character sheet), which gives +2 safety, so he's actually in positive safety at the moment.

That said, I'm not all that fussed about the size of the lab. Gregorius is spending minimal time in it - only those seasons in which he's actually doing lab work, not when he's just reading.

[MTKnife]

OK, just wanted to make sure. I'm still kicking myself about making the labs larger than intended, but it's not like it's hurting anything other than my sense of aesthetics.

Scott

[MTKnife]

Speaking of the Aegis...the red glow was Portia's sigil, right, or at least the sigil incorporated into the version of the spell she had learned?

EDIT: Yes, I found a post with a reference to it, and it was part of the spell Portia had learned.

Scott

[MTKnife]

Bleh, I just realized after all this time that all the underground labs should have the the Subterranean Flaw, which increases Upkeep by 1, which the covenant can't afford. We need some Magical Lighting or something (since the extra Upkeep is due to extra candles).

Scott

[Salutor]

On the plus side, most of them are unoccupied so get that 50% multiplier? Or were you already allowing for that?

I have to admit, I haven't sat down and worked out our finances at all.

[MTKnife]

I wasn't allowing for it, since I assuming a full complement of visitors--I can't find that rule, however. If there is such a rule, that might give us just enough wiggle room to add a few useful things in a relatively costless way.

There really haven't been any calculations to make: I just said we couldn't afford labs with positive Upkeep, and so anything that increased Upkeep would have to be balanced by something that decreased it. Mind you, there's no good reason that we couldn't have some labs have positve and others negative Upkeep, so long as the total is 0.

Scott

[Salutor]

It's in the grey box "Points of Laboratories" on page 64 of Covenants.

0.5 multiplier is a lab is used one or fewer seasons a year on average, 1.0 multiplier for 2 seasons a year, 1.5 mulitplier for 3 or more seasons a year.

[MTKnife]

So what do we think about the Magical Lighting and Heat issue?

Scott

[Salutor]

I haven't got any very strong opinions on it, although my inclination would be to not go for loads of permanent ring spells, as it does feel a little cheap.

And hey, maybe the hypocaust gives magical heating? If we ever get it going...

[MTKnife]

Yes, the hypocaust will give Magical Heating to everything within the covenant site (except to Viola's lab, of course). Observing the lab on the second floor, you've discovered it even has vents to lower chambers--magical heat, after all, doesn't necessarily rise.

One catch though is that you don't get the health bonus twice--the Healthy Feature bonus (the bigger of the two) will apply to the entire covenant, so Magical Heating won't carry the normal bonus to lab Health.

Scott

[ironboundtome]

@MTKnife

So what do we think about the Magical Lighting and Heat issue?

There could be other small powered magical ways to get these solved, as sets of lesser devices. Once a few are created at moderate level, the recreation is quick.

I'm wary of any large continual effect because of warping, but there are ways and means. Vis will probably be the limiting factor.

[MTKnife]

@ironboundtome

OOC: I think the covenant didn't have working lab space as yet?

One lab from the old covenant remained intact, the one on the second floor of the caves. However, Portia created magical lab equipment for all the other labs (and planned labs) within a few weeks of the new covenant's establishment. So yes, you do have a full lab available, but it won't have many Virtues.

(That, yes, is something else on my to-do list.)

Scott

[MTKnife]

In the rules, Warping isn't a problem for enchanted items. However, I started a debate in the ArM forum on whether or not a permanent Ring spell would cause Warping: https://forum.atlas-games.com/t/magical-lighting-in-labs/8728/1

So we need to rule on that before we decide on how we're going to do it in the labs, though obviously your method would pose no problem.

Scott

[ironboundtome]

@MTKnife

In the rules, Warping isn't a problem for enchanted items. However, I started a debate in the ArM forum on whether or not a permanent Ring spell would cause Warping: Magical Lighting in Labs

So we need to rule on that before we decide on how we're going to do it in the labs, though obviously your method would pose no problem.

Scott

I saw that thread but stayed out of it, well, because you're the alpha storyguide. IMHO warping won't apply to ring/circles, and I'd argue that it would be common through out a covenant for ring spells to be used for this type if thing. Not just the sancta, but everywhere.

In this saga and in other sagas I've run a simple Ring/Circle effect cast on a carved wooden object, then that thing mounted on pole gives "roman street lighting". You cast the spell, cover the ring (but not mark the surface) and you've a permanent simple effect.

As for Warping, if you really want to rule that there would be warping then it would only be warping the wooden things, not the people in the area. I think warping was intended as mechanical limitation to the application of magic in the setting, not to limit clever rudimentary spells.