Covenant Development

A local port village would certainly provide Gorianus with some interesting smithing projects. :slight_smile:

Piracy would be a problem for him, though. Ship building sounds good, but would it attract too much attention or mean the village is too big? Small fishing boats are one thing, but bigger ships are usually built in large towns or cities (requires a lot of different skills). Would we be fine with that large a town close to the covenant?

I think we should avoid criminal activities as a source of the covenant's income - with an explicit mandate that we're meant to act as a base for lots of magi we don't know well, it'll be too easy to get caught.

Having the steppe local and to be explored sounds good. I have to admit that my own knowledge of the Black Sea is minimal, whether coastal or steppe.

How long is it envisaged that the covenant has been re-invested? I think three years as a minimum, giving a reasonable amount of time for the incumbent Magi to bed themselves in.

What type of structure (natural or otherwise) do we want?
Cavern complex?
Ruins of a village, with regios leading to more intact copies of the village?
Abandoned Eastern Orthodox Monastery with a flickering aura?
A forest glade with a complex regio?
Other?

Do we have any idea how the previous covenant collapsed?

Do we want to use build points for covenant resources?

Ivan

I think the current plan is for us to found the covenant completely in play (my magus, at least, is fresh from his gauntlet), although there's been a bit of confusion over the issue. This does mean that the first year is going to involve a lot of set-up, especially as we'll presumably have an obligation to start setting up labs for the visitors it's the purpose of the covenant to act as a base for.

In terms of location: I quite like the idea of having a vast aura. I think it being level 5 was declared at the outset. I did make a comment about cliffs locally, but that was purely an idea, and I'm open to better ones. We should probably think about how we want to be able to deal with the mongols - how easy do we want it to be for them to find the covenant? Whilst I'm happy to have a few mongol stories, I'd prefer the main focus of the campaign to be on Hermetic exploration. I'd like to end up somewhere close to the edge (one side or another) of the tribunal, and with relatively unexplored land. Suitable local wolf hunting grounds would be a bonus. I'm a bit worried the earlier suggestions of the Crimea are slightly too civilised, but that's based on very flimsy knowledge of the area at the time.

Edited to add:

I'd prefer not to have a flickering aura. My take on this covenant is that it's been founded in an area on the edge of the Order but which is of outstanding magical (in some fashion, whether local animals or hedge wizards or something else) interest, and the flickering aura doesn't really fit with that. Regios I'm ambivalent about, although I'm having a hard time putting my finger on why One would certainly be useful for the Mongols, and it would provide a good reason to keep other local politics stories limited as well, which I'd personally think was a good thing.

With a maximum of 300 build points for a new saga, and extra laboratories costing 50 bp each, I think a lot of our initial bp are going to go into laboratories. This can possibly be offset by having most of our vis sources yet to be discovered (using the hidden resources minor resources boon) and/or the tribunal offering to send us a shipment of books once the covenant is up and ready to receive guests (promised favours minor external relations boon).

I'd like to put Viola's lab in a regio, but I don't think that sort of regio counts as a covenant Boon or Hook.

Scott

No, and that's going to be my personal mystery to leave hanging over your heads. :slight_smile:

Yes. If you'd like to design part of the covenant, including a lab for your own magus and a visitor's lab, go right ahead. I figure we'll probably start with about 1,000 points of resources. I suppose we can count the labs in that, but I want us to go through creating the labs--so don't count any lab improvements, unless it's stuff that's a natural part of the laboratory space (a regio, something structural, etc.).

Arya, those spells to create labs are gonna cost 9 pawns of vis per "staff" lab and 7 per visitor lab, right? Do we think the Tribunal will grant us that kind of vis (82 pawns, if we assume 6 staff labs and 6 visitor labs, and that we leave 2 visitor labs with natural equipment for visitors who'd rather avoid lab warping) in lieu of regular lab equipment?

Scott

What's the reason for the vast aura?

Scott

I suggest altering real history by moving Ovid's exile from the real spot on the Black Sea coast (which is probably within the Transylvanian Tribunal) to the Crimean island.
There he lived in a villa rustica, complete with a temple to an appropriate God, or several of them (Cupid? Venus? Apollo? The Muses?). The site (still haunted by Ovid's ghost?) has a high aura, because Ovid chose it for its natural beauty (cliff), has a pagan temple (rebuilt by the ruined first covenant on the site), and because of Ovid.

The aura could be lecherous (flaw, balanced by giving all people +1 to Presence while within theb aura), and on March 20th ( (Ovid's birthday; and sometimes unexplicably on other days), the flavor of the aura changes to "homesick" - Parma Magica protects against the worst of it, but traditionally, the day was spent in a spring celebration in the nearby village that is not within the aura (which the magi may or may not know). These outs of homesickness explain why some people leave unexplainedly - they are gripped by homesickness (and some never return).

I don't think we need a castle to deal with the Mongols: They can storm castles, so diplomacy or hiding are better strategies against them (they won't arrive for another 2-20 years).

I found a nice map/image of Crimea that highlights its geography here.

What it made me think of is a secluded valley (or plateau), accessible only by a network of caves (or paths). Depending on which one you take, you end up in a regio or remain on the mundane level. Protect that specific path and you have a safe place for magi. Bleed-through activity from the regio might give the area a reputation for being haunted, which would explain why mundanes avoid it.

There's a lot of potential in Crimea. A few other searches for the region close to Chersonisos (Sevastopol) found information about a lot of caves (the cave-cities of Mangup-Kale and Eski-Kermen, the Inkerman Cave Monastery), forteresses, ruins and even menhirs.

The thing is, there are tons of things there that can draw our interest. But I believe a covenant need to be placed somewhere that's secluded enough for magi not to be constantly interrupted by mundane activity. That may be why a regio may work best. Crimea is relatively small and fairly populated, except for the southern mountains. There are small lakes up there too.

Put a Tauri, Scythian, Greek, or Roman temple up there (or simply a magical site) and then go from there.

Just rambling here...

One objection I'd have to putting a covenant on the Crimean Peninsula is that Viola's first covenant was there, and we'd have to have a backstory (I'm not sure we'd want to make it the ruined covenant, because it wasn't really in the mountains).

More seriously, though, I'm not sure Crimea would be a good jumping-off point for missions going further east. If they were going by sea, maybe you could use one of the southeastern ports, though.

Scott

Possibly-- I've never played in Novgorod before and I don't have Dragon and Bear, so I couldn't really say.

Honestly there is no need for the warping from the magical upkeep; I invented Glass That Breaks No More because all of Portia's casting tools are made out of glass, and I figured she has all sorts of little trinkets about that she wants to preserve. Other folks' labs can be maintained with regular upkeep.

Speaking of upkeep, I would like to spend build points on lab upkeep because I will punch a kitten if I can't have Priceless Ingredients. :slight_smile:

Maybe somewhere like Batumi might work better? It's still on the shores of the Back Sea, but on the southeastern tip. It is in the Kingdom of Georgia, a Christian kingdom with knights and all. It sits between the tribunals of the Levant, Thebes and Novgorod (it's technically in none of these, based on the map in the core book). As such, it kind of makes sense as a base camp to explore unknown territories. It could have been sponsored by one of these tirbunals, or even by all three in cooperation (gasp, what a thought).

Another option would be the opening of the river Diepner. There was only a village there at the time (nowadays there is Odessa). It provides access to the Novgorod tribunal and the river leads to Kiev. It may be a little too close to the Crimean Peninsula, though. But easy access to Novgorod (from the sea) is limited. I don't think a northern port would provide much interest to the order as a base of operations.

Personally, I'd avoid Georgia just because our pen and paper game is set on the shore on the northwest edge of Georgia. Georgia does have some different interesting things going on, though. I believe it was the first Christian kingdom, though maybe just one of the earliest. It was just ruled by a powerful queen and is at the tail of its golden age. And here come the Mongols.

Chris

If we play in 1226, in Georgia, we found a covenant right when the first Mongols arrive. It's kind of like building a covenant in Afghanistan today.

I have no problem with founding a covenant 3 years before they arrive, but no magus will found a covenant in a warzone unless...

... unless there is something there that must be kept from mundane hands (nuclear weapons? a mighty infernal creature trapped in a cavern whose door may NEVER be opened? Ideally something dangerous, yet useless to the characters - something infernal). Such a covenant would likely receive heavy backing from other magi.

It would ideally require different kinds of magi - Apromor Flambeau, a Quaesitor, a Holy magus.

...or unless the magi were exiled and are now a brotherhood inexile - working together (to revenge or be redeemed?).
This would work for Aetos - he might have done something rash - he's a wilderist after all.

By the way:
Are we pro-Mongol? Or pro western civilization?

Isn't that date your citing the date of the first Mongol reconnaissance missions, not the actual invasion?

Scott

There are some islands on the river, too, so the covenant could be further upstream of the river. There's also plenty of stream, small bays, etc. that could make a good site for a covenant. In multiple places it widens to form lakes. Not much in the way of cliffs or mountainous terrain, though. I think it's got good potential.

The first Mongol reconnaissance mission into Georgia was in 1220, in the autumn if memory serves. I'd have to double-check the 1226 date, but that sounds good.

Chris

That does sound interesting. My current design would fit, though I could adjust and move towards the Flambeau or Quaesitor direction if everyone would like that. I have a bunch of ideas all bouncing around inside my head, waiting to get out. I guess we'll see what everyone thinks about the Mongols.

Chris

I think the pack of magical dogs would fit really well for an Apromorian hunter, but a fae-blooded Quaesitor would be more likely to initiate the glamour mysteries. Either would be fine with Portia-- she might like a Flambeau better because they generally bring more business to Verdi than the Guernici do. :wink:

Regarding the Mongol invasions, the magi wouldn't know they are coming, so that would not prevent them from creating the covenant.

However, it would make for a completely different saga than what Scott initialy proposed (base camp for exploration). It may work as a base camp for fighting, but isn't the Order of Hermes against mundane interferance (at least in theory)?

There are many ways to handle the Mongol invasions:

  • Play with it: Will make for a different tone and action for the saga. Forget exploration. Forget having much time in the lab once it starts. It's war.
  • Change the starting date: Place the saga a decade or more before the invasions begin. Explore away.
  • Change history: Say that there are no Mongol invasions at all. Or that they were delayed. Or that they have been stopped. Whatever you want. It simply doesn't happen.
  • Change the place a lot: Put the covenant in a place where it's not in the path of the invasion, but still in Mythic Europe. Different tribunal, probably, or wayyy north.
  • Change the place a little: The covenant is not directly threatened. This will still impact exploration, unless the exploration is very local, which has its own limits. (Unless there's a portal to a different world, but do we want to go there? I mean the troupe, not the characters.)

There are other possibilities, of course, but I think I've covered the main ones.