I believe Salutor was referring to your write-up of the saga, which said (bold from me for emphasis):
And when I proposed:
Nobody objected or commented on the range of aura. This certainly suggested that anything within that range was fine.
Now, I don't have anything about aura 5 as such. Aura 5 is fine and good, if perhaps a little too optimized (best possible aura before having any drawbacks). Makes sites with aura 5 a little too popular to my taste and smacks of munchkinism. And it does indeed limit the site in some ways. Reduces the possible depth of multi-level regios. If the aura originates from an object, it makes the source "closer" (magically speaking). It makes the potential effect of increases to the stength of the aura (whatever the reason) more crippling for the covenant. (Note that I'm aware some of these may sound lame, but that's because I don't want to spoil the reason for this specific site.)
BTW, if the sponsor didn't pick the site, then who did? When I asked whether any of the magi had visited the site, the only answer I got was a negative. So how would the magi know the current strength of the aura? From the reports of the investigation of the previous covenant's disappearance?
...
At this point, I'm very much tempted to simply say: forget it. Build the damn site any way you want it. At this point, I'm no longer having fun doing it. (Edit: You can use the material I've researched up to now, or not, as you please.)
Arthur, I think I can say without fear of contradiction that we all love what you've done. When people tell you they like everything but one feature, that's a huge compliment, and you should take it as such. I think the difficulty is that when we asked about that one feature, you rejected our request out of hand, and wouldn't really tell us why it was important that your proposal be accepted completely intact, with no changes.
Before you say anything more, though, I'm going to come as close as I can as Alpha SG to giving an order to everyone else: I want your opinions. If you'd all given opinions, one way or the other, a few days ago, we'd probably not be having this argument, because the troupe sentiment would be clear enough to make debate superfluous.
I'll say it again to reinforce what I said before: I really like what Arthur's doing.
I'm fine with a +3 Aura and think trying to figure out what happened and fix it sounds great. Then maybe we can get the +5 Aura back on the surface. It sounded like those who can't wait might be able to find a place to set up a new lab in what still exists of the +5 Aura. Sound good for a loner, but I'll stick with the +3 and investigate. For me, the more investigation, the better. Looks like I may end up using my InVi combination a fair amount, not that it's so scary, even if it is at the top for me along with ReVi (eventually Intellego will win out over Rego).
I pretty much second this. I like what Arthur's produced. Yes, in an ideal world my character would prefer a +5 aura to a +3 one (and getting the wolf into a cavern lab deep underground might prove interesting), but he's also built around exploring things and, within reason, will have gone where he's been sent.
The sponsor could just have said: "Hey, we want a covenant somewhere near the mouth of the Don--make sure it's accessible by water." Then we'd have to sail upriver and discover it. It could be fun.
My opinion is that I like what Arthur has been doing and would be very happy if he was willing to continue on it on whatever terms he feels comfortable with.
I would also like to point out, regarding Scott's earlier post, that the "agenda" of this disagreement has been building up rather gradually and haphazardly during the last few days, so I don't think it would have been possible for me to express an opinion on any clear terms much earlier. Is it the surface/cave distinction we're disagreeing about? Accessible/inaccessible? Sooner/later? Does a high aura exclude some story alternatives or can they work together?
In other words, I think troupe opinions work best when there are clear-cut alternatives or at least continuums to work with; it's difficult to be opinionated when you're not sure what exactly the opinion should be about. This particular case was difficult because Arthur was trying to keep the spoilers from us - maybe a hands-off approach works better in such situations in general?
I'd say it's been long enough, though I'm not in charge. I'd like to get a move on, and reaching vacation today should allow me to do so myself more easily.
Meanwhile, what do you all think of setting a base library and having each of us bring some books along? The base library could have some mundane stuff like Artes Liberales, Philosophiae, ... and a couple of the basics such as Magic Theory - mostly stuff that can be purchased relatively cheaply. Then we could each bring along books for the Arts and lab texts and all. We would just need to set a value limit to what we could each bring.
I'm not sure Viola would be bringing in, though perhaps the old covenant would have allowed her to have a couple of copies made (she can't copy herself--no Profession [Scribe]).
for now:
two threads about the library
Library - debate
Libraray - texts (to be used only for results)
In general, if our debates reach some consensus, or you use sg prerogative to decide one way or another, the results should be posted where they can be found without browsing.
It might also help if everyone posted their finished characters (or their current version of their unfinished character) somewhere - without lengthy comments or debates.
If I compare this campaign to my Rhine campaign (which has been running for quite some time now), I am amazed how many posts Base Camp has by now - without having started yet.
I also recommend that we start rather soon - many things can be sorted in-game: The library, for example, could arrive later, because the books had to be copied and shipped.
Same with some hooks: We can always add a dragon/fairie/mundane intrigue/orion alien. Of course we need a site, a general layout (hill, cavern etc) and an aura level right away. But regiones can easily be added later on.
That was my intention all along--I'm not sure if the finished library will be a separate thread from the finished covenant, but there's no reason it can't be.
OK, fair enough. Note though that Thanksgiving is next week in the U.S., and that's going to slow things down a bit--we can start the week after, maybe?
Ok, I'm going to try to explain what my frustrations were about the creation of the site, while at the same time trying to avoid giving away surprises that I have in store. In another post, I'll begin giving out details about the site in the format of reports provided by visiting magi before the decision to establish a new covenant was taken.
Important note: We must decide who the sponsor is. As previously noted, this is quite important for the decision on selecting the site to make sense. Without knowing who the sponsor is, there is no way the selection of the site can make sense. I think it's important that the criteria means the magi have little choice, in the end. Because we simply cannot take the time to develop all the potential sites in the area. This would have required a different approach from the start, and since we want to start the saga soon, we may have to do some hand-waving and say that the sponsor had us settle there. The reasons the sponsor gives may have nothing to do with the real reasons, anyway.
Now, please take the following with a grain of salt, in this part I am highlighting areas that are sticking points to me. The frustration I felt a week ago is now under control. There has been miscommunication.
The goal here is not to restart the debate on these issues, but really to understand the sources of the problems.
Here's the thing. I don't think I rejected those questions out of hand. I've tried to explain, repeatedly, that due to the concept I have for the site and its aura, starting off with an aura of 5 on the surface just made no sense. It's not that I am resisting the whole idea of an aura of 5 on the surface, but just that it would not make sense at this time with the concept. Many of the reasons I invoked were put forward to preserve the story (or stories) that I plan about the site, not necessarily because they applied. And again I cannot tell you why it would not make sense, because that's part of the spoilers.
Scott, you also mentioned that: "The way you've got things now, it probably meets Viola's criteria best (especially since no matter what you do, I'm going to design my own regio), including having a cave we can convince Portia to occupy.". That added fuel to my frustrations, because it gave the impression that "no matter what" I was building, you would simply do what you wanted with it, even if it made no sense based on the concept I have. You probably didn't mean it that way, but it still offended me at the time. Since you don't know the concept for the aura, then how can you take upon yourself to design your own thing within it? That was one of my main sticking points -- the fact that once the saga started, out-of-character decisions from you would override the concept of the site and render it invalid. Result: the work I'd have done up to then would be partially destroyed and I'd have to scramble to restore some sort logic in the site concept.
At a minimum, the regio for Viola's lab will need to be discussed beforehand, to make sure it fits within the concept of the site and aura. But I need some fairly tight control about this if I am to provide with a site that will make sense and drive stories about the site's secrets.
One last thing. The concept I have potentially involve multiple stories over many years of game time. I don't want to say more because I don't want to spoil those stories.
As I mentioned at the beginning, I'll soon post some in-character information about the site. These are reports from visitors regarding the site. My initial thoughts were that theses were provided by the sponsor when telling the magi where the new covenant will be. But it will depend on the nature of the sponsor, and how the site ended up being selected.
I would like to apologize to Scott and to all of you for the disruption regarding the covenant development. My attitude and actions have been a source of frustration and possibly anger, and although this was not my intent, the result is still there.
My past experiences with Ars have been mostly as a storyguide. Because of this, I was unable to take the middle ground of a Beta storyguide and took too many liberties. This would not have happened if I had simply been a player, but my enthusiasm in again being involved in an Ars Magica saga drove me too far.
Although Scott asked me to continue to actively participate in his saga, I have decided it would be best for all of you, and for myself, if I did not. He did not ask me to leave.
I wish you all the best. Hopefully we will meet again in another saga.
(I will not be reading any of the saga's topics from now on. If you wish to answer this, please do so my private message.)
OK, I now have what Arthur had developed so far. I haven't read it yet, and so if anyone wants to take over running the covenant setup story, I'll forward it to you. Otherwise, I'd be happy to do it myself--just let me know as quick as possible.
By the way, anyone who does still intend to design his or her own lab, please let me know ASAP at least the broad parameters of the space in question.
