I found a map of medieval Koblenz that we could use as a starting point for stuff inside the city.
I found a map of medieval Koblenz that we could use as a starting point for stuff inside the city.
I'll just warn here that I'll be more or less offline the next 3 weeks...
Is there anything I could do to help things move forward? I guess most of the others are working on their magi, so I don't want to push too much. On the other hand, mine is ready to go so I've got time to work on the covenant. I just don't want the others to fell like I'm trying to force the covenant to be exactly what according to my vision of things.
So, any suggestion on what I could work on?
Do we have some more background that I could work from? For example, if I know who the driving force behind the creation of the covenant, then I can create some correspondence that was exchanged between my magus and that magus, as well as one or more of the others. Similarly, I can stat out grogs if people have a kernel concept of what they'd like their magi to bring to the covenant. Same for vis sources -- if one of you wish for some vis source of a specific kind, I could detail something along those lines.
Just let me know, I'm itching to do something productive...
Well, you can always go deep into the back story of the magus. There are grogs...
As far as the force behind or supporting the covenant? I don't have a huge opinion except I want them to be independent of the various participants.
Where is everyone from (apprentice covenant)? I haven't decided for mine...
If we are in the Rhine Tribunal, don't we need the approval of the other covenants to found a new one? And shouldn't we be getting gifts in exchange for other favors? I don't mind handwaving this away, just curious.
Aedituus is from a covenant in the Stonehenge Tribunal, but has spent most of his post-gauntlet life as a peregrinator in the Rhine after the Interdict in England. (Are we starting in 1220?)
When I was playing the now defunct "Curse of the Rhine Gorge" I created a companion, Amelie, who was intended to eventually be the mundane Steward. I never really had the chance to play her, and wondered if anyone would mind if I brought her along? A version of her stats is here: https://forum.atlas-games.com/t/campaigns-active/203/1. Both would probably need tweaking for our purposes.
With two Bonisagus, and the kinds of players involved, a research oriented covenant seems reasonable, with the nominal backing of Durenmar and House Bonisagus. It could be their last ditch attempt to stave off Fengheld.
I think having someone who can grow into the role of a Steward like that would be good. She'd be our girl Friday. We will all have our own retainers, but they probably learn quite quickly to go to her, and she builds up her political base with the covenant's mundanes by just Getting Things Done. What do you think of adding something like Social Contacts, so she's the person who always know someone?
I mentionned it because at one point you wrote about having a character concept that would tie the others together (a kind of merchant). I checked back in the Character creation dicsussion thread to refresh my memory and Praxiteles is an artist magus with the Gentle Gift.
For some reason I thought we had a merchant-type magus more interested in living in Koblenz proper, but it seems I am misremembering. No matter. Although someone interested in playing a companion on those lines would certainly have something to work with there.
So this comes back to the following questions:
Indeed, the Rhine rules about new covenants has to be taken into account. If we want to handwave some of all of it, Petronius' pater is a good way to do it since he has lots of political connections. We may take a covenant Hook for favors owed, or not. We can also detail parts of it as pre-game narrative stories. There's plenty of potential for as many of these as we want to work into our magi's backstory. If we go with GotF, there are many covenants that need to be convinced. Here's a summary list of the covenants, with their foundation and destruction dates, along with what might convince them to approve of us:
The date of the saga has of course an influence on this. I would personnally prefer a date before current canon, between 1180 and 1205 for instance. If we want to avoid the Rheinstein problem, it would make sense to go for something after 1200. So maybe to ruling of 1200 A.D. (when Rheinstein was announced destroyed) forbidding the establishment of new covenants in the Rhine Gorge region never occured. Or we could have been established before Rheinstein. Or Rheinstein simply never existed in this saga.
My vote would be 1184 A.D., with no Rheinstein in this saga. This is after Treverorum has been destroyed, so we won<t have conflicts with them either.
Sure, that would be great. Her wine merchant background would tie in nicely with my magical cooper companion. Together they would certainly be able to provide a nice income for the covenant, amongst other things. This might be in exchange for initial capital to build a thriving business, acces to the Hermetic market, access to a longevity ritual some time down the road, and/or all the wonderful things a covenant can provide.
I did originally, and he can still buy and sell and be a glue that holds things together. As i got long in the concept the merchant magus wasn't speaking to me, so I retooled. There's not any reason he can't be glue that binds things together and does some of these things. I haven't written his back story yet, but he came from the Normandy Tribunal originally, and while on the Interegnum met his now wife and muse in Koblenz, and settled here since she wouldn't leave.
to the questions..
I think my character could have done or coordinated all these tasks, the third one was probably hired out or done as a one off request to his parens who I have yet to sketch out. A small favor might be owed for that one.
Regarding Arthur's questions ...
My thought about Aedituus is that he has spent some time as a peregrinator in the Rhine covenant before our saga begins. As he is also interested in the role of the Divine in the Enigma, he would be likely to spend some time in local monasteries. If he stayed at Laach Abbey or at St. Kastor in Koblenz, he may have discovered the site using his second sight. He is not strong in Intellego at Gauntlet, but that is one area he will improve in the time he travels. Thus, he could help accomplish #1-3. Restoring the manor is probably beyond his skills. (But not those of Amelie and her contacts.)
1184 was earlier than I was expecting, but not unreasonable. If we go with this, I would say that Rheinstein does not exist.
As I reread posts here, I notice an aura level 2 is most often suggested for the covenant. Most of the other sagas I have played in and the baseline aura in Covenants is 3. Is there some reason 2 is better?
The two is going to be in outer areas, while it will be higher around the temple of Mercury and Rosmerta...
Considering the covenant is very close to a city, it didn't make sense to have too high an aura. The usual "it's in a regio" explanation gets old after a while.
There's also the fact that the aura is 4 in the shared lab. That will make it desirable for the magi to use that lab as opposed to simply staying in theirs, where the aura is 2.
And if the rituals are not performed, the auras drop to 2 and 1, respectively.
But if the conscensus it to make the auras stronger, we can do so. Those values are simply my gut feeling as to what would be appropriate there.
Suits me fine.
Just a quick list of the Boons and Hooks that would seemed to describe the primary site of the covenant at this time. The list is far from complete.
Note that I did not take Boons and Hooks for the dual areas of the aura (they would balance out anyway). In the same way, I did note take Boons or Hooks for being so close to Koblenz, as the ghosts in the forest provide us with a reasonable isolation.
The secondary site(s) would have a few Boons and Hooks of their own to describe their specific features.
I think the last Rhine Tribunal meeting was in 1179. (Based on GotF pg 18, where a Tribunal was held in 1144.) Are we assuming that our covenant was approved at that time and that we have spent five years getting established? That seems a little long to me, and I think the next meeting in 1186 may be too close in terms of what our magi plan to do with their time. This is assuming we want to play Tribunal stories; I can go either way on that.
I thought the covenant needed to be recognized after it was established. It is possible that it was discussed in 1179, and nominal approval given then, and then for the five years since then we established a solid foundation, and we come together two years before the next Tribunal. Does that make sense that way, now?
Works for me.
Actually, I read the Rhine tribunal ruling as saying that the covenant needs to be approved before it can be established.
It doesn't make sense for buildings to be raised, vis sources to be claimed, mundane income to be established, and so on, if the covenant is not recognized first. Otherwise, any existing covenant could then raid those resources, since they don't belong to a recognized covenant.
Also, a covenant is first and foremost a group of magi that are recognized as bound by their pact, and a pact with the tribunal. So any group of magi could present themselves before the tribunal and petition for recognition, even if they don't have any site, library, and covenfolks.
So, the way I see it happening as thus.
Some time before the 1179 A.D. tribunal meeting, the magi (at least most of them) meet and agree to seek found a new covenant together. One of them knows of some potential sites* near Koblenz. So they travel around the tribunal seeking sponsors from each of the established covenants of the tribunal. At the 1179 meeting, they petition the tribunal for recognition. The sponsors express their support and each established covenant announces their gifts. For the next 5 years, the potential sites near Koblenz are investigated, one is selected, the mundane grant are obtained on the forest, and the main site is built (as well as the secondary site). The area is explored for other vis sources. Mundanes are recruited. The books for the library are copied. Five years go by as the character gather those resources, gifts, etc. Saga starts in 1184 as the site is ready enough for the magi to live there.
*[size=85]The potential sites were the forest, a small site within Koblenz itself (where some supports of the destroyed Roman bridge still stand), and the caves below Laach See.[/size]
So each character must have participated in many ways to this process. As I mention before, not all magi need to have been implicated right from the first -- some may have been recruited along the way. For example, Petronius was Gauntleted 7 years before the saga starts. If we think 2 years is a reasonable time frame to gather sponsors from the various covenants, then he will have been involved from the first. Otherwise, his pater may have heard of the effort and proposed to sponsor the new covenant in exchange for the membership of his filius.
So, things could have proceeded as follow:
Again, this is a suggestion and the timeline can be changed and expanded to suit each of the characters. Simply let me know and I'll update it.
**[size=85]I've already detailed one of the (the Vim source at the main site). I will describe 2 more for the other potential sites. A Rego source would make sense for the remains of the old Roman bridge, while Terram/Ignem (or something) else might be appropriate for the caves at Laach See.[/size]