Covenant Discussion

I second this notion

That also works for me.

Excellent stuff, folks! Love the detail and, were I not stuck at work, I would have more to contribute. But for now...

1) Build Points
-Do I get any?

2) Shared Lab
-I think a lab requires one season of familiarity (in lieu of two to set up) between magi? Serf's parma as I don't have Covenants with me. I think it's also mentioned in Hermetic Projects under the Shipbuilding chapter.

3) Private Labs
-Didn't see a definitive on this... can we choose to set up a private lab in the aura/2 area?

Of course! Given that I think we're in consensus about Kelloppy, we now have 210 covenant build points and 50 personal build points. The 210 is things we've discovered/earned and pledged to the covenant. The 50 are yours to share or not as you wish.

Acclimation/familiarity is only necessary if the lab is not set up as transient use and has a positive Refinement score.

Yes, there is plenty of room, Arthur has done up several drawings.

I should hope so! I certainly plan to have one of my own.
though it might turn a tad... esoteric* :wink:

  • Not really esoteric ofcourse, I just want to play with an idea I had.

My understanding is that since this is a new covenant, we'll each have to set up our own labs from scratch. We can do that either before the saga starts (by slating that time in our pre-saga advancement) or in-character once the saga has started. Unless we want to describe a reason for basic labs to be already set up.

Personally, I've kept the last year of my magus' pre-saga advancement free for such things as setting up his lab, as well as gathering the last-minute resources.

The last update of the covenant's layout is in this post. As you can see, the labs are identified with numbers, so we can discuss who wants which lab.

There are 6 sancta at the main site location, and there were also plans for a secondary location a few miles away from the main site (I'm no longer sure who would use it). Other small auras also exist throughout the area. So we can always detail another area if some of the players want something special for their magus.

I need to restate this a bit, as it could cause some confusion.

As long as a lab is setup for transient use (meaning it's been stated as such) anyone can use a lab, regardless of the positive refinement of the lab. So one could have a supper buff lab setup for transient use that is good for something (good discussion topic here, which I don't think we've had in full).

Given the format of this saga, I don't think that there's a strong reason to hold off on that year of development. Things that your character will do are likely of your own desire and you write it out. It may come to pass in OOC discussion that we may come up with some interesting story ideas and someone may want to run a particular story. It may be that someone wants to make sure they're kept super honest and ask someone to run a story for their magus, too. But by and large, we're all kind of editors here, write a story and then leave it to get critiqued and edited and then post it as a final. I dunno. This is an experiment, and I may not have explained my concept well enough early on.

An update of the covenant build points. I will update as other players chime in and/or review their contributions.

So for the politics of establishing the covenant and getting sponsors: Oculus wants another city covenant, one who understands what they go through as a city covenant, while Crintera wants a check on the temporal power of Oculus. Since we are going to have a measure of trade, I can envision that being used as a tool to strike at Oculus indirectly. Maybe we agree to sponsor a few Bjornaer peregrinatores for some period of time, say 20 years?

Proposed Sponsorship Requirements
[tableborder][tr][td]Sponsor[/td] [td]Requirement[/td][/tr][/tableborder]

I'll come back to this post and update it as we move forward and agree on what the sponsors are requesting of us.

How would Crintera know that we may be aligned with Oculus at the Tribunal meeting of 1179? Since having Praxiteles as a member is what we promised Oculus Septentrionalis, it's doubtful that Crintera would have been made aware of it, and Prax probably arrived in the Rhine only after the Tribunal meeting.

But the sponsorship of Bjornaer peregrinatores may still be a good idea. It could be linked to the secondary covenant site, who could have been build as an aerie for Bjornaer with bird heartbeasts. So they would have a resting place when travelling long distances, safe within an Aegis and with their mundane needs easily met. Our covenant will be easy to find, with the Rhine and Mosel rivers, as well as the city itself.

Crintera may also have asked us to support their charges against Oculus Septentrionalis of helping the Danish invasion of Rügen. In that case, our votes were not enough to make a difference and the vote failed anyway. Our vote would have angered Oculus slightly, making future relations with them a bit strained.

So we have:

  • Oculus Septentrionalis: Accepting Praxiteles as a full member of the covenant; establishing favorable trade relationships with them.
  • Crintera: Establishing the aerie for travelling Bjornaer with bird-shapes; voting for them in the Tribunal of 1179 (done).
  • Irminsul: The covenant where Petronius was apprenticed to Octavius, located close to Paderborn in Saxony. Free sponsorship.

About Triamore. Since both Aedituus and Petronius have spent some time there as peregrinatores, they probably were able to form friendships there. I don't think the matter of the Lotharingian Tribunal is something that's been brought up yet. Just having another city covenant that is not too far may be a good thing for Triamore.
Furthermore, I had previously thrown the following ideas earlier in the thread:

  • [b]Durenmar /b: Vis bribe, Bonisagus influence
  • [b]Irencillia /b: The planting of a faerie tree in our forest, or something completely unrelated
  • [b]Fengheld /b: Just about anything
  • [b]Dankmar /b: May have had to help them obtain something (to be used for mischief), dark faerie influence, some service
  • [b]Roznov /b: Probably don't care
  • [b]Terschelling /b: Support against Order of Odin (this is before it becomes Waddenzee, the leader was still Axior of Flambeau)

Right, Crintera doesn't have to know anything about Praxiteles. They just want the covenant to be engaged in commerce as a check on the growing commercial interests of Oculus Septentrionalis. The reasons for sponsorship aren't related on the surface, but become related because of the demands of each covenant sponsoring. Oculus is expecting Via Experimenta (is that our name?) to be receptive and cooperative (or at least easily manipulated) because of placing Praxiteles and his spying wife.

I think that sounds fine. We're probably not wild enough for some Bjornaer, but for the more refined and sophisticated ones we would be a suitable covenant.

And this may be a concession that Oculus is willing to make, they understand that the vote is coming. Perhaps Crintera will be satisfied if a majority of the magi of the covenant support their motion and would understand a single or small number of votes going to Oculus, not that they like that idea.

I want to play the Irencillia one a bit differently. We have a weak aura, and a faerie tree could quickly come to over power our magic aura. I don't care to mess with faerie stuff too much, and I don't think we have any faerie inclined magi, unless I'm missing something or not remembering.

Those were not set in stone, and now that I review them I don't really like all of them. I'm not interested in anything faerie, so we could also settle for something completely unrelated for Irencillia.

In fact, there's nothing that forces us to describe all of the requirements. Some may simply have been met and done, having no impact on the saga. Perticularly for those covenants that are located farther away from us, and with which we will have little interactions. In some cases a simple vis bribe would have clinched the deal. I see Irencillia, Terschelling and Rosnov falling in that category.

Durenmar probably liked the idea of a research-oriented covenant. Fengheld probably hopes that the needs of a Spring covenant will be at odds with those of the more traditionalist Durenmar.

Dankmar may simply have been some service, probably something disgusting. :imp:

Indeed, we haven't really discussed a name for the covenant. I think Via Experimenta is fine for the name of the saga, but it doesn't really does it for the name of the covenant.

I thought choosing a name could have been done in character when the magi initially meet (which would be before the 1179 Tribunal Meeting). But we could certainly discuss it here and choose something suitably grand. :smiley:

Anyone has ideas?

Titus was trained at Durenmar. He could well be part of the agreement wth Durenmar?
Some of his research is unlikely to be cheap in the long run.

Certainly. We just need a sponsor from each covenant, so in some cases the pater of one of the members should be willing to be that sponsor, without any other requirement. I'll update the list to reflect this.

We are now at something like:

  • Oculus Septentrionalis: Accepting Praxiteles as a full member of the covenant; establishing favorable trade relationships with them.
  • Crintera: Establishing the aerie for travelling Bjornaer with bird-shapes; voting for them in the Tribunal of 1179 (done).
  • Irminsul: The covenant where Petronius was apprenticed to Octavius, located close to Paderborn in Saxony. Free sponsorship.
  • Durenmar : Titus' pater resides there. Free sponsorship.
  • Triamore : No speficic requirement, sponsor obtained when Aedituus and Petronius were living there as peregrinatores.
  • Irencillia : Token service that was performed before saga start.
  • Roznov : Small vis bribe paid before saga start
  • Terschelling : Small vis bribe paid before saga start
  • Fengheld : (unspecified)
  • Dankmar : (unspecified, probably something to weaken Durenmar)

About the name of the covenant, here are some elements that I think could be part of it.

  • The temple of Mercury and Roswerta (key words: temple, altar, the ceremonial bowl, laurel, Mercury), although it does have some elements of paganism that may not be agreeable to some of the magi (I'm thinking or Aedituus here, which is probably the most pious).

  • The forest around the covenant (key words: forest, woods, oak) and its haunted nature (key words: ghosts, whispers).

  • The research focus of the covenant (key words: search, research, quest, path, mystery) or its cooperative/freedom orientation (key words: friend, tolerance, free, unbound)

This can give names such as:

  • Quercus Dimitti ("The Freed Oaks")
  • Templum Susurris ("The Temple of Whispers")
  • Argentum Laurus ("The Silver Laurel")

Those are just example. If we can agree on a concept for the name, than we can explore variants. Unfortunately my Latin is fairly limited, so I have to rely on translation sites.

This one get's my vote I think, though I liked the temple of whispers as well.

Many variants are possible for each, which is why I think we should initially focus on the concept.

For example, base on the concepts of silver and thelaurel branch used in the Mercuralia tirual, we could also consider Argentum Ramus (Silver Branch), Argentum Folium (Silver Leaf, with an interesting play on folio/a kind of book), or possibly turn things around with Laurus Argenti, Ramus Argenti and Folium Argenti (I think these express a little more strongly the concept of "silvery" instead of "made of silver" like those beginning with Argentum).

(For what it's worth, I think Laurus Argenti sounds better than Argentum Laurus.)

Folium Argenti... nice pun there :wink: