I think it should be Base 3, it seems like the "create a bridge" guideline applies.
A cone that is 4 paces in diameter and three paces tall has a volume of 12.6 cubic paces (unless my geometry has failed me), so the tent seems a fraction too big for a Group target CrHe. It needs to be a bit smaller, or have a size modifier.
Also, I'm not totally certain why you think you need a Group target (rather than just a size modifier). Is it because the tent is composed of many Herbam elements? I'm not sure that really applies like this.
A tree, for example, is composed of many Herbam elements that can all be separated (leaves, seeds, fruit, branches, twigs, trunk, roots), yet an individual target CrHe spell is adequate to create a tree without needing to muck about with a Group target.
I looked at that guideline, but it referred to a "living wall or bridge", and the Bridge of Wood spell referred to a "bridge made of living" material. The level two guideline referred to the processed plant product, but I can see that this is more of a finished work than a mere plank, so maybe Base 3 is more appropriate.
I guess I think of a tree as an individual made of up different things, but the tent as a group of different Herbam elements in the same way as the stone house with a slate roof is a group of Terram elements, as suggested by an earlier post. The T: Group accounts for one size difference already, unless I am misreading something (again).
I think I'd either do (Base 2, +1 Complexity), or (Base 3), which is effectively the same.
The spell is creating something much more complex than a bunch of planks.
Yes, Target: Group effectively gets you one size bonus; so your spell creates 10 cubic paces of Herbam stuff. The problem is that, the proposed volume you are creating is 12.6 cubic paces (I think).
As far as Group target goes, I thought that was your reading. I can see that is a possible take, but to me this seems unnecessarily harsh. I don't think that a stone house needs to be considered as a group of Terram things either. It is one thing, a stone house. Likewise, I would view this spell as creating one thing --- a tent. The fact that the tent is composed of lots of little things isn't really relevant. All things that Creo magic creates are composed of lots of little things.
For example, would a suit of chain mail (made up of lots of little metal rings) count as an individual Terram target, or a group of Terram individuals?
I think that Group should be reserved for circumstances in which you are truly trying to create multiple things --- like a spell that creates 10 tents.
Either way, it is probably something to discuss with your troupe, I guess.
By the RAW, wooden tent poles and a woolen blanket require a requisite.
The solution would be to have an oilcloth tarp, heavy linen or hemp with linseed oil (or the equiv) - all Herbem, and a reasonable period product for the purpose.
If going with He/An form, then Base 5 is correct - but you'd then have to add a couple mag's on top of that for a "treated and processed" product!
Of all the Te/Fo guidelines, CrAn is, imo, brutally inflated. Try to create a fur cloak, or just a bearskin rug to keep someone warm for a night - absurdly over-blown imo.
For what it is worth, Julia Textrix in Magi of Hermes has the following spell:
Whereas the total volume of this tent is greater than a Group of Herbam individuals, the total volume of plant material is not. Note that the Base 1 guideline of "create a plant product" with a magnitude for treatment is the same as the Base 2 guideline of "create a processed plant product, like a finished plank of wood". The extra magnitude for finishing the product allows the manufacture of clothes, furniture, or in this case, canvas and poles.
Only if it was solid wood or canvas. A tent's volume is mostly air. Since tha Target has to be Group - since multiple objects are created - no size modifiers are needed, and the tent could probably be much bigger. However, making it big enough to sleep 10 people seems appropriate.
That reminds me of the story of Dido and Carthago: She asked only so much ground as could be covered by a cow-hide. She cut it into thin stripes and won enough space for Carthago.
What I want to say is: You are pushing the door wide open for munchkinism. (Dido was the mother of all munchkins )
Besides, since the Target is Group, the spells creates a group of separate elements : the poles, the canvas, some ropes maybe, the tent can be disassembled (and may well start up this way, depending on the spell inventor's intent).
While i cant say for sure either, im fairly sure you got wool correct and i think the woven plant fiber is plenty realistic as it could include anything from hemp to linen, both of which i think would be at least possible.
However, for the high class traveler i believe the only proper alternative would be a silk tent!
Plenty enough knowledge that this was used.
Roman legions used tents made from goatskin for certain, linen and wool have been guessed at but never shown for sure.
There are several other plants less known today that is of similar sorts as linen and hemp and very probably could have been used for tents as well but its easier to just simplify it to wool, linen and leather i think. If not good enough IIRC i think i posted a list of such plants somewhere on the board previously...(might be nice for flavour of course)
If you're referring to Casting Req's, sure, but this ain't that.
I think any canon example of a Formulaic Spell with free (non-Casting) Req's is extremely rare, but I'll admit I'm not going to dig thru the list to find out, so I could be wrong.
Well, for starter, Lungs of the Fish, MuAq(Au), Trapping the Fire, MuIg(Te), and generally speaking every transmutation spell. If all you are doing is changing a form into another, the spell would do nothing without the requisite, and so the requisite is free.
In the same spirit, all the spells to change a person into something... if you look at the MuCo spell in the core rulebook, half of them have requisites, and all those requisites are free.
Heck, if you look at the Muto spell in general, no matter the Form, there are plenty of requisites lying around, and they are free more often than not.
Outside of Muto, however, free requisites are extremely rare. I found Hands of the Grasping Earth, ReTe but the free requisite is... Muto You have Calling the Odious Draught, PeAq(Au). That is all I could find with a quick skimming.
I would say that in a Creo spell that actually creates things of more than one Form, the requisites cannot be free, no matter how minor.
Completely agree, but I tend to take a more practical view with a lot of creo stuff to avoid silly things. Like a stone house with a stone door, stone benches, stone hinges and a cleverly conceived companion with mythic strength just to operte as doorman simply becaues it avoids the Req...
The tent posted above is a very good example. It ended up with a massive level and part of that was the tent poles...
Erm, why not create them with a different spell and have one of the goons insert them, or better still take a hatchet and go make some tent poles form a nearby tree - they are quite common in mythic europe I am told. Moreover - why the heck would you want a spell to create something your goons can carry and is cheap as dirt. I can imagine there are times when a magus is completely bereft of all chance to plan his outing, but they surely are not common enough for a magus to spend seasons developing a spell such as this - at such a magnitude?
If you are gonna have to add a magnitude for tent poles at then why not add a different magnitude that is at least cool - like a rego req to make the tent stands rigid WITHOUT tent poles or a muto req so its coverings shimmer, glow and reflect the image of a viewer only distorting it so it looks like he has two heads (actually that probably qualifies as free - purely cosmetic).
Sometimes it just feels too painful to enforce - like an entirely stone house with iron hinges for the stone doors, and there only. SG/Troupe call.
Exactly - with Muto, the target is the thing changed, not the thing changed to - hence the casting requisite. But when Creo'ing, it's a diff matter (Hands of the Earth notwithstanding).
No. There are bunches of other spells in which the requisites are free. Indeed, the requisites are usually free.
They are not free only when they result in a second effect that greatly increases the power of the spell.
A spell "create a tent" would need requisites for all the Forms in the tent, but doesn't really add a second effect.
Requisites that actually add cost are almost always Techniques. The few exceptions involve obvious second effects, as when using InCo(Im) to see a person at a distance, as well as everything around him.
Also, on the hinges front, or tent pegs or whatever - it raises an interesting point.
Magcically created stone has to have mundane properties only... We are all working on this premise I presume.
I wonder, couldn't you shove a rego req. into just about any spell and give the created item unnatural properties... such as stone hinges with the properties of iron. We are targt group here already are we not so you are not by default adding extra magnitudes and thereby making it less of a 'cheao way out'. The requisite for most arts other than rego becomes pointless... and rego takes on a whole new level as the art of choice after your specialism.
I definitely feel that is very easy to exploit but I don't know where in the RAW it would exclude that. Perhaps a lesser limit of the theory of Bonisagus is required ot prevent that way of thinking, or someone smarter than me to point to the appropriate rules section countering it.
Muto, not Rego. And then the spell could not create an item that lasted indefinitely.
Alternatively, it is possible to create an animal with magical properties (even Might!) by adding Vim; Muto is not necessary and the animal lasts indefinitely.
It would be reasonable for some magus out there to have figured out (or to figure out) how to create awakened items in the same way.
Note that creating a magical animal does not bump the magnitude by one just because there is a Vim requisite; requisites only increase the magnitude when there's an additional effect, and "create a griffon" is a single effect that involves multiple forms, as is "create a tent."
Since Rego does not work as described....
However, there is a similar discussion to be had about Muto. One can create a sword out of thin air by using CrTe, but in theory, MuAu(Te) also works...
Probably not explaining myself very well here. Easily enough done. I am not talking about actually changing the created material... I am talking about forcing it to work in a way it normally does not. More akin to ReTe20 unyielding earth (p.156 core). It doesnt CHANGE the earth, but it does give it properties it does not have. In this instance I the properties, but not apparance etc of harder material. I am looking at using Rego functions here such as as defined in the base for ReTe Base 3: Control dirt in a very unnatural fashion. I agree there is an obvious sympathy in the descirption that all examples for that spell are hearder types of earth.
BUT
The ignem description ReIg Base 4 describes fire that does not burn in the lower category of 'slightly unnatrual fashion'. That would suggest a pretty broad remit to me for 'highly unnatural'. I do accept that burning is also a function of ignem... but still this is the lesser of the two options (highly and slighly unnatural).
I would have thought granting properties to something was very much within the remit of Rego, Muto is about changing from one thing to something else. I am talking about improving something in an entirely unnatural way.
edit:
Having thought about ths some more I have been completely distracted by a tiny number of examples that dont fit the mould. Most of property granting features do indeed seem to be a factor of muto.
)
You have Calling the Odious Draught, PeAq(Au). That is all I could find with a quick skimming.