Creating Houses

[Ovarwa]

Hi,

@The Restless Kaiser

Probably not explaining myself very well here. Easily enough done. I am not talking about actually changing the created material... I am talking about forcing it to work in a way it normally does not. More akin to ReTe20 unyielding earth (p.156 core). It doesnt CHANGE the earth, but it does give it properties it does not have. In this instance I the properties, but not apparance etc of harder material. I am looking at using Rego functions here such as as defined in the base for ReTe Base 3: Control dirt in a very unnatural fashion. I agree there is an obvious sympathy in the descirption that all examples for that spell are hearder types of earth.

The property being given to the unyielding earth isn't a magical, weird property. Lots of earth is packed and unyielding. People can even pack their own earth, by hand. Rego is appropriate for that, it is a kind of change that can be performed on ordinary earth by ordinary people.

Controlling earth in an unnatural fashion is about moving it around, holding it up, and so on, not about controlling it by changing it.

BUT

The ignem description ReIg Base 4 describes fire that does not burn in the lower category of 'slightly unnatrual fashion'. That would suggest a pretty broad remit to me for 'highly unnatural'. I do accept that burning is also a function of ignem... but still this is the lesser of the two options (highly and slighly unnatural).

Burning in an unnatural fashion is about stuff like "the fire doesn't touch the magus as it burns everything around him," rather than "it burns so unnaturally that it changes into a bear and bashes its way into the honey pot."

I would have thought granting properties to something was very much within the remit of Rego, Muto is about changing from one thing to something else. I am talking about improving something in an entirely unnatural way.

Eyes of the Cat is Muto, not Rego; it 'grants' the property of night vision by changing the eyes. Granting extra intelligence is Creo. Rego does not grant properties, except indirectly: It grants the property of "being here rather than there" by moving the target. It grants other properties by manipulating the substance using magic, but to achieve ordinary effects.

considers

I sense a disturbance in the Force. I find it odd that this kind of discussion is occurring after all this time.

edit:

Having thought about ths some more I have been completely distracted by a tiny number of examples that dont fit the mould. Most of property granting features do indeed seem to be a factor of muto.

Muto grants properties that 'don't belong' by changing the thing. Creo grants properties that are an improvement that do belong. Intellego grants the property of "I get it." Perdo grants properties that suck, such as "he's dead, Jim." Rego grants location, and properties that can be achieved through non-magical means. Thus, ReTe can transform iron ore into the desired iron without any tools, but it takes MuTe to transform that iron into gold. ReTe allows the magus to move it around, but it takes Muto to grant it flight.

There are a few spells that are weirdly designed, and a few more that are very poorly designed. Most make sense.

Anyway,

Ken

[The_Restless_Kaiser]

@Ovarwa

Hi,

considers

I sense a disturbance in the Force. I find it odd that this kind of discussion is occurring after all this time.

edit:

Having thought about ths some more I have been completely distracted by a tiny number of examples that dont fit the mould. Most of property granting features do indeed seem to be a factor of muto.

Muto grants properties that 'don't belong' by changing the thing. Creo grants properties that are an improvement that do belong. Intellego grants the property of "I get it." Perdo grants properties that suck, such as "he's dead, Jim." Rego grants location, and properties that can be achieved through non-magical means. Thus, ReTe can transform iron ore into the desired iron without any tools, but it takes MuTe to transform that iron into gold. ReTe allows the magus to move it around, but it takes Muto to grant it flight.

There are a few spells that are weirdly designed, and a few more that are very poorly designed. Most make sense.

Anyway,

Ken

And that is why these forums are great. I have been playing ArM for years, but not often. A good 6 month bash at it ever no and then - generally the edition has changed in the intervening time, but hey what else am I gonna spend my money on?

There are people here who live and breathe these rules, and for folk such as myself that get into it periodically, but enthusiastically, these clarifications are extremely helpful. Especially now with so many supplements to file in my head it just keeps getting harder. My MkI eyeballs, and beta version 8-bit brain couldn't manage any other way.

I like ArS because its great for stories, troupe style play and circulating SGs. I like it because you can bend it and move it and wiggle it around to get what you want... and I hate it because I hate rules and can never remember them and it makes GURPS vehicles seem like nursery school maths.

In the end I would probably rather get it wrong than not be able to do it... but in here I can find someone who an tell me how to do it right!

[Ovarwa]

Hi,

Fair enough!

I do think it would be nice if the rules were easier to use; they are much improved yet still heavy-weight.

Anyway,

Ken

[Cuchulainshound]

@The Restless Kaiser

In the end I would probably rather get it wrong than not be able to do it... but in here I can find someone who an tell me how to do it right!

But you are doing it right - so long as you're having fun!

The only time a "non-canon" interpretation or approach would be a problem is 1) if internal contradictions and short-sighted precedents start to be a problem in your game, or b) you try to use canon material that just doesn't make sense with the way your troupe has been playing, or iii) as can happen on these boards, someone states "this is how it should be done" when their statement has nothing to do with "the rules as written" (and they don't draw that distinction!).

Creativity and interpretation is always to be encouraged over slogging through minor rules and perhaps not having fun, and the editors/writers seem to lean that way whenever possible, intentionally not over-defining rules and leaving non-central details up to the individual Troupe/players. How exactly do non-circle Rego Wards work? They work just fine, thanks for asking. 8)