Creo and the Medieval Paradigm

Now, if the created things vanish when the spell expires, but their effects don't, then, in theory, the nourishing effect of magically created food should remain in place while the food itself disappears - that is, the subject is no longer hungry, but its body is not fed either.
Also, food created with a duration of Sun might even have been expelled already, which would mean it did indeed feed the subject but after its duration the subject needs to eat again.

The same goes for alcohol. If the effect of alcohol on the subject is drunkenness, then it should not vanish as the alcohol itself does when the spell expired.

Am I thinking outside of the Medieval Paradigm here?

Any thoughts?

This subject has been quite extensively discussed, but as a notorious creo-food naysayer :wink: I cant control my urges to chime in.

In terms of the Laws of Magic you could say the Limit of Energy makes it impossible or you could say that nourishment is more than the mere effect of eating something (and that that something must have an essence beyond a limited duration of a given non-vis creo spell).

In short my personal vendetta on non-permanent nourishing food is actually setting integrity - how you argue pro or con is only, albieth important, a spice :laughing: . The ability to make food as an off-hand trick is extraordinary setting-altering. It changes the face of Mythic Europe - and it changes the story we tell.

All in all in the end -especially with the RAW being unclear on the matter- this really is a matter of YMMV.

To get around some of the points of the issue I recommend this thread: [url]] or taking a look at the FAQ at to which the resident mediator extraordinaire, aka Andrew, posted a fair summary.

It is a can of worms. Tread this path at your own peril. There have been extremelyn dense and lengthy discussions on the subject of magically created food in this same forum. Search a little bit for them if you want a weekend's worth of reading up in your printer.

We simply made magical food non nutritive. You get drunk and satiate your hunger, but you rever to your previous state once the spell experies. If you keep eating magical food, yopu woud die of hunger in our saga. You would not feel hungryn would would starve to death none the less.

Easy to apply and solves the problem of magical food nourishing but not nourishing at the same time.

And the dung of magical horses disappears as well, even if the footprints do not: the dung was created by the magical horse and it is made of the same "material2 while the footprints were impressions left on the world on a pre-existing material (earth) by the pressure of the horse like a rego effect.

Completely out of canon approach as well.



I'm not in favour of having Hermetic Magic create food that will actually nourish anyone either, but as I reread the magic chapter I stumbled upon this and thought it odd.

In fact, I would rule that while the subject would not be hungry he might indeed starve to death. As for drunkenness however, I do not see why the subject would sober up instantly, and if he did, there ought to be at least an instant hungover going on. :slight_smile:

Thanks, and yes, I should have realized this had been discussed at length before. I will go and check the links now..

No worries. It woudnt have been if it didnt catch peoples interest. Problem is that it's mentioned 2 or 3 places in the RAW and they are not very conclusive.

Enjoy the read!

I've found a webpage (in french, sorry) where the hunger and the thirst are discussed, in the medieval paradigm. References to religious and medical texts are indicated. ... OUETTE.pdf
I'm afraid I haven't the time to translate the entire pdf, but I will try to give you an excerpt.
All I can tell is that the hunger is :
"Once all the food in the body has became dry and rot, veins are deprived of their sap, blood lose his redness and becomes aqueous. Then the veins want to be filled and blood wants the flesh redness. Here is the hunger the man feels."
The thirst :
"When a man eats, he exhausts himslef, like a grinstone when it mills ; under this effort, man warms, dries, and he begins to dry from the inside, which is what constitute the thirst"

So sorry for my bad english, I hope I have transmit the spirit of this text.

The full Hermetic magic doesn't fit to the medieval paradigm so why to worry a little piece of it?

Magical food isn't nourishing permanently because you could feed the whole covenant with sun (or moon) duration food. But you are allowed if you sacrifice some vis. That's all.