Creo Ignem +30

I am trying to figure out at what level of damage a fire must be to melt an entire town down to bubbling stone, to completely torch everything that exists within a boundary with a single spell and burn it for an entire day, to reduce everything to slag. Blackened stone.

What level of damage would you need to turn stone into lava?

Would the +30 damage fire be enough?

Well, let's start with the table in the back of ArM5. I believe Ignem damage assumes complete immersion. Boiling water -> boiling oil -> molten lead -> molten iron is in regular increments, though this may not be perfect. At very least these are uniform steps. Also, burning wood is just below boiling oil. However, anyone who solders knows that seems backward. But we might suppose conduction is factored in. Flame does not conduct as well as lead. Let's say we need to double the damage of the wood fire for comparison.

(I'm using Fahrenheit because I can find it quicker.)

Boiling water (+3): 212 *F
Boiling oil (don't know what kind) (+6): 375-510 *F
Molten lead (+9): 621.5 *F
Burning wood (+5x2): 1100-1500 *F
Molten iron (+12): 2800 *F

Now check the CrIg guidelines. Boiling water is base 4. Melting lead is base 10, two magnitudes higher. It looks like oil would land at 5, which seems reasonable. However, it' a big jump from lead to iron. So perhaps base 15 for wood and base 20 for iron.

If that sounds reasonable, then you have base 15-20. I would go with base 20. (You might also check Hermetic Projects so see if that lava stuff includes a CrIg guideline.)

Then you'll have to make the fire big enough (extra magnitudes) and last long enough (more magnitudes).


Beyond awesome Chris working that out. I am quite deficient at times, I get lost in the math because I over think things and then double track them and then I just end up adding things up twice.... it's funny.

The spell as stands is:

Cr/Ig level 80

base 25, R: Sight D: Sun T: Boundary +2 size

This is meant to be over kill. A massive abuse and insanely absurd spell, created by a Levant Flambeau who torched an entire town of 40,000 people for... (long story) He had the skill and ability to create and use the spell and of course the vis...

But as I was trying to make the spell I could figure what level of damage it would need to be... if a die +30 for an entire sun duration would truly be the conflagration for which I was looking. Nuts! :laughing:

I believe for Creo you would need T: Individual (or T: Group, but not here). You'd then need more magnitudes for size, but the overall level will probably not change.


That's actually a bit more tricky.
I think you're right, but the restriction on Creo targets is only on effect that "actually creates something" (ArM5, p. 113, top box).

In this case though, I'd say that flames/heat is created, so Ind +N for size is probably RAW. Even if I'd prefer T: Boundary myself.

Yeah see I always jack up my stupid spells. Bah it works out as nearly the same size wise, but I suppose I understand the reasoning.
Just how sloppy does Ind +6 size look? :laughing:

So the +6 gives 1,000,000 square paces, so a conflagration ((and here is where I completely look like a damn fool doing math on pain medication)) 20 paces high in a circle with a diameter of roughly 252 paces prob 253 paces to be fair.
Yeah I don't need the 20 paces high.... I just wanted a massive conflagration. Honestly I could probably go with 5 paces high and be fine yeah?

So... 5 paces high then the diameter would be 504 paces. I think... :blush:

Not a bad bit of damage there.... though realistically a area of flame 2 paces high with a diameter of 800 paces would probably be what I am looking for, rather I may boost the level of the spell or loose a level of damage to make it bigger. I figure if this spell is supposed to be the greatest inferno a Flambeau has ever made...

.... I actually should start looking at other avenues

the effect to melt the township is cool, bu if you'll forgo the fire aspect then other arts might help get that level down?

  • try as an Auram sandstorm
  • or as a MuTe effect with Aq to change the land to watery consistency, so that all the structures from below the surface, then turn the spell off ?

Cool spell. However, I'd just do smaller D: Concentration spells along with ReVi to make them last the day. Then cast a whole bunch of them. Assuming you can get high enough casting totals, just cast a whole bunch of them, starting by surrounding the town and then moving inward. It would take a lot less time and cost a lot less Vis.


  • but be way less cool! 8)

The magus that cast them has a Ignem score of 54 and a Creo score of 31. The other techn were abysmally lower, a Muto of 3, Rego of 14, and Perdo 6. His forms were even worse with his Herb, Animal, and Corpus being zero, and his Mentem and Corpus both being under 10. Only his Vim and Elemental Forms were higher, but none of them went above a 13. He was a highly specialized Persian Flambeau elementalist, who severely focused on Ignem to exclusion of all else.

This magus is completely fictional and lived two hundred years before the game time of 1217. As you can see he used the philosophy of "when you have a pile driver, see the world as long timbers to be driven" :laughing:

So he invented what I wanted to say is the greatest most powerful Ignem spell to have been created in the Theban Tribunal, if not the entire Order.

At final count I can't decide if I should make it level 85 or level 90.

This is all spontaneous silliness on the part of myself just making background flavor for history that none of the other players probably will even notice. But it was fun to do and I got some time to kill.

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

If you do enough of these, you could write up a few Hermetic sayings on notecards or something similar. This way they're at your fingertips. For instance, a saying among magi could arise: "like [Persian name] lighting a torch." Something like that would add some cool style and might intrigue players enough to discover the source of it.


Outstanding idea Chris. Brilliant.

If only Horseflesh could be around to see how awesome a idea you just gave me. :laughing: