Cthonic Magic taint during Laboratory Work?

Does using Cthonic Magic taint a spell or item produced as a laboratory activity?

  • Yes
  • No
  • Don't know

0 voters

This has come up in the Light of Andorra PbP Saga.

I can't recall reading the answer anywhere so I thought I'd throw it to the forums...



it depends on the "version" of cthonic magic. If you are actually calling on demons then yes, if you are calling on the old gods/spirits which are magical then no

Both versions include evil acts. if you use chtonic magic to cast a spell, you are evil. Period. I would say that the item inspitres revulsion in good Believers as well. The spell is impious, wether cast by an item or person is irrelevant.

So my answer is "yes".

Whilst I'm unhappy about Cthonic Magic automatically pinging as evil*, since it does than the taint must be incorporated into all it touches.

*Dark and evil are not the same, and the people of the book neatly demonstrate that the sacrifical deaths of living things and the like aren't evil. Frankly, I'd rather the perceptions mattered more than an arbitrary, "you're it." A magus boosting his casting total by slaughtering a goat to Hekate is definitely going to call the attention of the Quaesitores and having him then immediately marked as Infernal ruins any and all suspense.

NOT EVIL acts..

Quote...Pg 123

This low magic, or chthonic magic is more associated with the gods of the underworld and spirits of the night, than the servants of Hell.

Okay, having said that...

The parts that talk about taint...
...He may also take full advantage of Infernal Vis...However, because of this association, his magic becomes tainted...

So what its saying is that IF you use Infernal Vis, THEN your stuff becomes tainted....
Moving on...
If you use the Range and Target associated with the Infernal, THEN that taints your magic...

Finally, page 124:
...To activate this he must perform some kind of sinful act immediately before or during casting, which influences and becomes part of the spell. This must be something that caster himself knows to be wicked OR evil (though not necessarily a mortal sin)...

It then continues on and list what you can do to invoke this...

So NO, it does not automatically taint the item.....Unless, as Agnar has said, you do one of those things....

The conditional view is my own as well. Using the bonus for casting I think is an 'always tainted' condition... but there doesn't seem to be a clear stipulation that the lab bonus suffers the same penalty, though it may stand to logic either way.

Of course you can play however you like, but I've always thought that what's going on is that since you can benefit from Infernal auras, all of your magic is tainted, including magic items and other laboratory effects. Tainted means that it reads as unholy when divine or infernal effects analyze it, but that magic or faerie effects see it as magic. It's still magical, but the divine and infernal realms can detect the infernal influence. When you use the doubler, it becomes clearly infernal, so that even magic and faerie can recognize it. The doubler is to tempt the player into doing something that will lead to stories, and force him to keep his magic secret and suspicious. And of course it's supposed to be useful enough without the doubler, so that the temptation is always there.

ETA: fixed "him" to "his"

Sorry Vortigern. The Master has spoken :laughing:
Actually, I like Erik's take on it. I do not have this book, so I only have these comments to go on. But the way I understand it, the Chthonic taint seems like a half-step towards Infernal. Not fully evil, but quickly leading down a slippery slope. I think I understand the premise now :wink:

Yup. It benefits from the same dark and scary conditions that demons thrive in, even if it doesn't necessarily involve trafficking with demons or subscribing to a certain view of morality. The Divine doesn't like magi benefitting from that, so it considers them allied with the enemy, and the Infernal recognizes that such magi are either ripe fruit for corruption or potential competition.

OK, that seems pretty clear now.

Thanks for all who chipped in with clarifications and opinions.