Ghost: Can you decide if and how you want to nerf DEO?
The spell would be central to my character, and unless we're up at someone who has a might of 40 or higher it is overpowered.
He ruled stripping might destroys the vis you would harvest.
I agree that we should keep it simple. I mysef often ignore these squirely side rules as needless complication. For example, I am trying to emulate an Alchemist without touching Mysteries. And since I am on the subject...
Here is the core Virtue & Flaw configuration I intend to design the character around
Oscar Omovar Ex-Miscellanea
Free Virtues: The Gift, Hermetic Magus;
House Virtues & Flaws: Craft Magic, Spell Foci, Weak Spontaneous Magic;
Major Virtue: Flawless Magic;
Minor Virtues: Adept Lab Student, Arcane Lore, Educated, Inventive Genius, Minor Magic Focus – Healing, Protection (mentor), Well Traveled;
Major Flaws: Necessary Condition (use of Spell Foci), Optimistic (Major);
Minor Flaws: Difficult Spontaneous Magic, Hedge Wizard, Mentor (protector), Overconfident (Minor)
I answered this a couple pages ago:
I'm trying to figure out if I'm just wasting a lot of real life time figuring out spells as well as character time (like 75 experience and a few seasons on spells) for no point whatsoever. It's just one of those situations where I don't want to find out a year from now that what my character has been trying to do will never work and it was pointless to try it to start with. I would rather know now that it's pointless.
Now, if I can get a crafting bonus but the specifics will be figured out at the time of creation, I can deal with that. Even, "if you craft from good material and get a really high Finesse roll, then you will get a bonus," at least says there is a point to it. As I said, I'm not asking about introducing new rules; I'm just trying to gauge what you interpret "very hard," "nearly impossible," etc. as accomplishing when crafting a weapon or a suit of armor.
Again, what I stated about in-game stuff is what we will have to use. I will never tell someone that their concept isn't valid or won't work, but rather that we'll have to spend some time exploring how to get it to work in a way that's satisfactory to everyone. If you want to be a crafter, I have no problem with that at all. And much like you, I also wouldn't want to put a whole lot of time into something to find out it's not feasible. But the best answer I can give you on bonuses is what I've stated before. Wish I could do better that that.
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To follow Marko's example, here's the Virtues and Flaws I'm building my own maga around.
Free Virtues: The Gift, Hermetic Magus, Puissant Ignem (from House Flambeau)
Minor Virtues: Educated, Puissant Magic Theory, Puissant Perdo, Skilled Parens
Major Virtues:: Elemental Magic, Greater Immunity (Cold)
Minor Flaws: Careless Sorcerer
Major Flaws: Chaotic Magic, Dwarf, Indiscreet
Yeah, she's overcompensating for being small. Which makes her a bit...frosty.
Great. That works for me.
And I've got the mechanics for a post-Gauntlet Flambeau up. I'd like to get some feedback before I start aging her please.
Callen
Covenants p122
I think the Ambulatory Labratory might be able to be modified to shrink rather than teleport? Or at least you could shrink it then teleport it to your wagon. Then shrink yourself....
Pretty sure that is actually a lab virtue.
Just saw it in my perusal of the books.
Ghost
How much Vis are our personal Vis sources going to produce if we take the virtue? The suggested one tenth of the covenant's income is 2 pawns per year. But not all ST's like it to be based on the covenant.
Book purchases should have a limit at character creation on them. Covenants says your run of the mill summa should be Quality=(31 to 28)-Level. With books written by masters being Quality=35-level.
In game finding a master that produced a Q+L=45 book and bargaining with him seems fine.
Will you allow us to apply magical Foci to the highest spell level learned at character creation formula? (obviously still respecting the no higher than level 35 rule, which I don't understand BTW the practical limit is well below that...)
While I can't speak for Ghost, I think foci normally apply there.
I thought Ghost's rule was no higher than level 30:
Level 31 is 7th magnitude, which is out. Level 30 is 6th magnitude. If it were higher than 7th, that would change things a lot for me. There is one critical spell for me at level 35. I just figured I'd have to design it in the lab.
RAW they don't, that is a formula not a lab total. It just happens to be identical to the Lab total that it takes to learn spells in game.
So it is! I read it as no higher than 7th, which is in fact not what it says. That makes a bit more sense. The highest I could reasonably see someone's total being is about 30 without spending ill-advised numbers of XP on arts.
Question for the table, how old are people making their Magi? I keep looking at that flat 10XP and thinking "Well maybe one more season."
Actually, it's a ReTe 30 spell. And all it does is moves all of the movable furniture and equipment from your lab to another room that you have an Arcane Connection with. I do believe it could be modified to shrink the contents, though. Ooh! Shrink them with a variant, then move them with the original to a shrunken room for transport! Oh!
Interesting question. Everyone is different, and just because I generate 2 pawns of Auram per year doesn't mean you will generate 2 pawns of Ignem.
I looked at the Vis Extraction rules, and I like those. So I think we'll use that for your Personal Vis Sources. (Creo + Vim + Intelligence + Magic Theory) / 10. Rounded up. As an example, Vonette would generate 2 pawns per year (5 + 0 + 2 + 5 = 12, divided by 10 is 1.2, rounded up is 2).
Now the extraction rules are the amount generated in a singular season, which is basically 3 months of uninterrupted work. But the Virtue doesn't take that into account, and you shouldn't be penalized for a Virtue in this way. So let's say the amount of Vis generated is over the course of a year, so you'll have to evenly split how much you generate and have access to per season.
Is this fair? Balanced? Thoughts?
Why do you feel this way? You can only generate so many points towards writing a book in a single season, so why shouldn't someone be able to spend multiple seasons writing a high quality book?
Not sure I follow the intent of the question about applying magical foci. If you have a focus, it should apply to all things for that focus easily.
As far as the 7th magnitude, that applies only to spells learned pre-Gauntlet. Post-Gauntlet, you are not subject to that. It's only on the 120 levels of spells (or 150 if you have Skilled Parens) during the initial character generation for Apprenticeship.
The rule states "Note that no magi at this point are allowed to have any spells that are of the 7th magnitude or higher.". It's pretty clear that you cannot have spells that are of the 7th magnitude or higher. So yes, that is exactly what it states; you are probably reading this without taking into account the wording "of the 7th magnitude", but rather are interpreting it as "higher than the 7th magntiude."
Not sure about anyone else, but Vonette is going to stop at Spring the year she turns 35. 10 years post-gauntlet and that's it; I'll deal with aging rolls for her in-game.
And now my own question for the table: What enchanted item is everyone thinking of creating for themselves? I am not sure for Vonette, but I do know I don't want to duplicate or overlap.
Linking a pers vis source to the CtVi lab total is not a good idea, Ithink:
magi with a good CrVi lab total won't take it because they can generate all the vis they need.
magi with a bad CrVi lab total won't take it because it doesn't help much.
We are also ignoring that according to HoH:TL Mercere section, technique vis is worth more than form vis.
How about 2 pawns of technique vis, or three pawns of form vis?
Yes, I know about that. But it's also impossible for the apprentice to acquire those spells without it applying. Did the parens teach it? Focus applies. Was it reinvented from a lab text? Focus applies. I think they issue is that someone copied the formula for the lab total instead of saying it equals the lab total. Similarly, Puissant Magic Theory doesn't apply by RAW, right? You're not using your Ability, you're just checking a formula. Also, Puissant (Art) doesn't apply for the same reason as Puissant Magic Theory doesn't. But I think people generally apply these.
What we can do is look for published magi at gauntlet. Magi of Hermes is the quickest for me with so many at-gauntlet magi. Let's see. Alexander of Jerbiton applied his focus, or he could not have started with The Desert Wanderer. Aurulentus has no relevant spells. Conscientia has an error, being 1 point short for Epona’s Bane if Puissant Magic Theory applies, 3 points short if it doesn't; with a switch of the specialty it works if Puissant Magic Theory applies. Gwidion has no spells of a high enough level to confirm anything. Hugh used his focus to start with Doublet of Impenetrable Silk and Edge of the Razor, but he ignored Short-Ranged Magic to get Blunt the Viper’s Fangs and Dust to Dust. Lambert has errors, being 2 points short for both Tread of Fellow Travelers and Blissful Messenger if Puissant Mentem applies, 5 points short if it doesn't. Marcus has no spells of a high enough level to confirm anything... I'm getting tired. Anyway, you can see a number of authors have assumed Minor/Major Magical Focus and Puissant Ability/Art apply, and a few made errors that only get really close if they also thought those apply.
Based on the 7th magnitude rule and that one critical spell along with not being able to take Baccalaureus, it looks like I'm moving my bit of Faerie from things like having Second Sight into full-fledged Strong Faerie Blood while dropping Skilled Parens and moving the experience that would have been there from those Virtues into some years after gauntlet. There aren't that many spells that are so critical to the design, and the focus will apply, so we'll see.
Actually, ReTe 50:
Look again. The spell is outlined on page 122, and it shows ReTe 30. Where are you seeing this?
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I've seen yet another comment about the 7th magnitude. That rule only applies until you start doing your post-gauntlet build. Once you start working through post-gauntlet, you can take/invent whatever spells you want. But during apprenticeship is when this rule applies.
Does the luck virtue help when experimenting in the lab?
Look again. The spell is outlined on page 122, and it shows ReTe 30. Where are you seeing this?
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I think he is quoting official errata.
There is no reason this golden goose I happen to own should be laying eggs based on my Arts. For fairness I'd rather see a consistent rate for everyone.
That being said having a high Creo I'd me more than happy to boost my Vim so that I was getting 3 or 4 Vis every season.
I meant for buying books. I can start the game with a Q20 Level60 book on Mentem and only pay 20 vis (80qp) for it, that is just silly. (and no magus who ever lived could write it...)
I understand that, I was explicitly talking about pre-gauntlet.
I'm not going to banter very hard since it only hurts my character to do so.
I was just saying that he was right and I was mistaken. An incongruous thing to see on the internet. So your confusion is understandable.
I'm mostly focusing on using rituals on myself. It's my focus so that makes sense.
Additional questions
Are we assumed to be at the Covenant prior to the game starting? I assume so since otherwise all our post-gauntlet lab improvements would go to waste.
Can we buy lab texts of core rulebook spells post-gauntlet?
I will probably be experimenting while inventing/reinventing spells post-gauntlet. Is that fine?
Yes, please answer, I was planning on having fun with Blessing of Venus but I can just get Lucky instead 8)
That's why I ask for references all the time. I don't know everything, and I can only go by what I can see.
Then we're back to 1/10 of what the Covenant makes per year. Or 2 pawns.
At the current wage system, you'll end up spending 7 years earning Vis wages to pay for a book (3 pawns per season, 1 season per year). For 1 book. Assuming you don't have a Personal Vis Source and aren't using Vis for anything else. That's a MINIMUM of 7 years. I can't see having to spend 7 years to get the necessary Vis to purchase a book of that quality when you've got other stuff that's more pressing to work on as being silly.
Well, if you aren't at the Covenant prior to the game starting, then you won't have a lab at the Covenant once the game starts. Remember it takes one full season to set up your lab, and a new lab does not inherit the Virtues, Flaws, Features, etc., of any lab you are moving from.
Did I not cover this in the purchasing books section?
[goes to take a look...]
Darn it all, I didn't. Um, considering I stole most of the purchasing books thing from Marko, I'd have to ask him how he handles that before I can answer.
Well, that's what post-gauntlet is for. 
Well, Experimentation already takes this into account under Exceptional Risk. Whereas Luck grants me the ability to say how much of a bonus you get, Exceptional Risk puts that bonus allocation in your hands. So I'm going to say no, but you are free to use the Exceptional Risk rules.
It's all good, you won't know otherwise.
Cool just wanted to make sure before I started ageing.
I'll modify the OP with my just Gauntleted sheet and figure out the background stuff you asked for. It is hard going through L&L on my phone at work so I haven't gotten to it.
Your character is 10 years past Gauntlet. You need to spend 1 season per year for seven of those years, that's not really a huge deal. It's not just 1 book, it's Q20L60 it is the ONLY book you will ever need on that topic. It is a book so good you need a Covenant feature to even have it in your library (and that feature doesn't even come close). To put it in perspective it would take someone 180 years of constantly putting 10xp into their Art to write that book. That book can be read to gain more experience than some of the ancient example magi have in all of their arts combined.
To be clear, I think allowing it is a mistake and I'm literally going to buy a level 60 Creo book.
Cool beans on everything else.
EDIT: Forgot something.
So we can assume we are working at Semita Errabunda for all of your post-gauntlet? Does that mean we have access to that library and can read for 15-21 XP rather than just getting 10xp?
Speaking of the library, is it safe to assume that Latin book is in French? It is important to have a good Latin book for the school assuming my sodales allow me to have a scribe copy it.