De Moribus (OOC)

So, this thread shall be used for all out of character discussions that need to take place. Any table talk, rules questions, strategy, etc., should be here.

Discord: discord.gg/Q8xcK6U

Like Marko Markoko, I was thinking of a Flambeau. (Maybe develop a friendly rivalry?) But knowing what Marko prefers, I suspect they would be quite different. I'm thinking of one from the Schools of Sebastian, with a Minor Magical Focus in arms and armor (a la Hugh of Flambeau in Magi of Hermes, but nothing like Hugh in style). I would go mostly a Rego & Muto route, primarily Rego, controlling weapons in several magical ways more than wielding them directly.

What has brought us to the covenant? This is where I'm unsure. Have we been there for three years, being among its founders? Has something happened? I thought I read something about a missing founder, but I can't find it now. I'd like to build a background story so being at the covenant makes sense, especially after potentially having developed a great lab at another covenant.

If we accumulate vis, can we use it to buy books (mostly thinking lab texts) which we can spend a season on?

I’ll be drafting a Criamon magus. At present thinking about a focus in Wood, obviously a strength in Herbam and Vim. Perhaps also an interest in strategy games and games of chance.
I’d like to attach the characters background into the covenant & tribunal somehow too.

It's interesting that you want to go Flambeau as I am also building a Flambeau magus. But mine is focused on Perdo and Ignem, going the Boreas way with ice and snow.

What brought you to the Covenant? That's for you to decide. I wouldn't be opposed to you being one of the founders if you so choose. But again, the why is up to you.

Where in the rules exists language on purchasing stuff with vis? I'd like to read up on that before answering the question.

OK. I wasn't sure if there were some specific events that might cause the bunch of use to show up.

Covenants has a section on purchasing texts.

I skimmed the referenced section, and I'm not entirely certain that any firm pricing structure was actually given. Not to mention that there is no mention of how long it actually takes to find a given book. So I going to have to decline your request unless someone has firm rules on this that can be used.

Verditus has pricing for enchantments. Triple cost of making the enchantment.
Mercer mirrors those costs.

Covenants covers cost for magical books. Vis equal to level, up or down a bit based on if they are someone's pet project or super high quality. 1 pawn for damaged books.
The side bar-page is about as explicit as they can be with a system that generally prefers barter anyway.

If this is helpful, in my saga I have a unit-of-account (mainly used by Redcaps) called the qp. That is the relative value of one-fourth a pawn of Vim vis. A Quarter Pawn. Then a very basic price list.
Books on Arts: qp = Quality + Level
Books on Abilities: qp = Quality + (3 x Level)
Lesser Enchanted Items: qp = Magnitude + Level

These are not price tags, just a starting point for haggling.
Except I just lied. :mrgreen: I do use them as price tags, and hand wave bartering as taking place "off stage", unless the player wants to play it out and try for a better bargain through character ability and role playing.

I have an entirely different character concept. I will let you guys play out the Flambeau drama. I have distinct and controversial opinions on House Flambeau history, and it is best not to bring that luggage here with me.

Instead i wantto play an Ex-Miscellanea magus, Rustic Magic from Societates, page 130.Combined with Flawless Magic and Difficult Spontaneous Magic. An "Alchemist" from Iberia seeking to peddle his wares amongst magi of another tribunal.

I'd like a Pralician. InVi and PeVi. Flawless to get lots of mastery.

I see a lot of us really appreciate Spell Mastery. I plan on using it, but don't worry, I'm not also going the Flawless Magic route.

The one Mystery Cult I'd really been thinking of is out. Wrong France book: it's in Faith and Flame, not The Lion and the Lily. But happily, the whole arms and armor Flambeau fits quite well into The Lion and the Lily.

I’m hunting for insight on a concept - I wrote this earlier and thinking about it more makes me think it touches Criamon-ish aspects but not sure how to “bring it home” so to speak. I’d like a Criamon who might appear to some to have totally strange views of the world, I just need to get a rounded concept.

The concept is a magus who believes games will grant insight and awareness of the enigma. Basically I’d like to stretch/ignore the concepts of the Enigma according to the HoH book and move back to the House allowing its members to investigate their own path.
Games of chance & games of strategy as reflections of the real world - like the shadows on the cave wall in Plato — the games are the shadow play which the philosophers seek to learn from to understand the universe. When he has mastered all the games and studied the underlying risks, strategy, and entropy then he may find enlightenment. Wars repeat with subtle changes which are the lessons. Games repeat too. Politics is another game.

I’m very happy to throw away the focus in Wood to add a more thematic focus but cannot suss how Magic combines with the concept.

Also - I can’t work out where “strategy”, strategy games , or games of chance might fit when a magus tried to specialise. Carouse has “games of chance” in it, but does that mean that the magus also needs Intrigue and Leadership to round out the skills of a great player of games?

Thoughts welcome.

You could probably fit strategy games all together under one Profession. HoH:TL Tremere section might say something about chess; I'd have to check to confirm, though.

Maybe a focus on sharpening the mind?

Ghost, you have covenants on there but you specifically call out only the lab improvements. Two questions

Does that include overtime, I think it's at the end of the same chapter?
Are YOU using the rest of the book to manage the covenant?

My Jerbiton concept was focusing on having a school and cranking out experts in trades and such. With full use of Covenants that would mean that I'd start eating away at our costs by having skilled covenfolk and eventually bring in a new income source by hiring out our people. The original idea involved making a mystery cult for craftsmen which would occupy most of the magus's time but I totally get not wanting to deal with that.

My back-up character was also on the spell mastery band wagon, but I can figure something else out, if the muggle training thing turns out to be inherently ineffectual.

Yeah, I took a second look through the Prices section on page 95. And it's about as vague as you can possibly get with this. I can find a few references to cost, but nothing concrete. Or, rather, nothing as concrete as I would like to use the book rules for purchasing stuff. But, it's not all lost; it's just another opportunity to come up with something fair and balanced.

I'm going to wholly steal what Marko put forth about cost of books, and I'll get that added to the character creation thread post haste!

I'm going to lift the restriction on Covenants and allow the use of the whole book.

So I hate to bring it up since i don't like the correspondence rules, but do we need to figure out what kind of pen-pals we send letters to?

I've created a House Rules thread where I've listed out, so far, the rules for purchasing books and enchanted items. You may use these rules during character creation, but keep in mind that it takes time to find and purchase items (1 season per enchanted item, or 1 season per 10 books). Once the game starts, purchasing items in this fashion becomes an RP opportunity.

What?

Based on those replies,

Marko, how many qp for lab texts? I'm guessing magnitude/2 based on the rest.

I don't want to open a can of worms here, but I don't think I am and I'll ask seeing the note on Covenants and it being in HoH:S anyway. Covenants and HoH:S both introduce Rego Craft magic, which I planned to use to make arms and armor. They set difficulties, but they don't say beyond words what those achieve. C&G gets more specific: Finesse roll 18 "very hard" yields an excellent +1 bonus. Finesse roll 21 "impressive" yields excellent +2. Etc. can we use those numbers from C&G to go with the Covenants / HoH:S words for consistency without pulling in anything significant from C&G? In other words, I'm not asking to introduce a rule from another book, but reference another book when using these rules from two included books for consistency. I would recommend capping these bonuses using Craft (even for magic) as C&G does so huge rolls don't make gross items.

I'm fine if we skip correspondences. I feel like it turns an RP thing into a bookkeeping nightmare with a in-game reward.

Writing letters gives you 1xp per season (see covenants, the section about types of books)
1.) allow it. Make everyone tell you who they write to and about what. Let everyone have one free xp for season. Makes players happy.
2.) Discourage players by stating that they really have to write letters (max 1xp per season): 2000 words per xp.
3.) Disallow it.
4.) or come up with your own solution

Another issue from covenants: Do we really need full scribal teams (illustrator, binder, scribe), or can we sum that up under profession: scribe (as most games do). Not asking for myself. I don't see my character as much of a book writer.