De Moribus (OOC)

Covenants page 90
Correspondences. You send and receive letters from mages on certain topics you and they are interested in. You get +1xp for the season if you do it. after several years your letters can be turned into a tractatus.

Ya, callen summed it up pretty well.

It's a few pages down from the rules on book binding which i also think the world would have kept turning without...

As a note, I wasn't begging for the inclusion of the book, if you were going to be tracking the covenant's income in the background anyway then I wanted my character to be able to interact with it. If you weren't going to worry about it then I don't need to worry about augmenting it and I could go on to deal with something else.

But I AM going to be keeping track of the Covenants resources as that may become an important thing. I mean, what if you guys go through a few years where you fall short of making 100 mythic pounds and end up broke? Stories abound!

If you insist on using the Correspondence rules, then I'll insist that you use canon magi from the Normandy Tribunal. I know - not all of the canon magi have full scores for every ability and attribute and art. Use your best judgement here. Keep in mind that you'll need to receive 3 letters per season for 2 years to have any form of tractatus out of this. And the quality will be the sum of your Communication and your correspondent's Communication. Might be easier - and will take less time - to just purchase a book as the quality will be much higher than writing letters.

Maybe we should also nerf PeVi spells like DEO. I've been thinking about the Pralician and I'm tempted to PeVi everything while maxing out penetration, and it might be wise to take this away from me or I will use it.

I need a little more information on what you mean by nerfing the spell?

One way to nerf those might strippers is to have them reduce only Might Pool, not Might Score. Still useful for rendering such beings somewhat ineffective, but you'll never defeat them this way, and they might still be able to beat you up physically or with powers that cost 0.

Or changing the spell guideline, or making it a minimum lvl 25 or so spell...

Thinking about some spells... How do these look?

Object of Miniscule Proportions [MuTe 25]
. . . R: Touch, D: Concentration, T: Individual
This spell shrinks the touched object to 1/4000th its volume and weight (1/16 length in each dimension).
. . . Base 4, +1 Touch, +1 Concentration, +2 metals/gems, +1 smaller

I based this off of Object of Increased Size (ArM5 p.154), noting that consistently when there are examples shrinking goes down by double the factor the increasing goes up. So Base 4 is 1/64 the volume. I added another magnitude to do this again, for 1/4048 of the volume. I wanted to include gold, gemstones, etc., so I added 2 magnitudes for that. Meanwhile, I set its duration to Concentration.

I'm also considering the same thing for weapons, but I haven't been able to figure out if the +2 for metal is needed. I would have thought so, but Object of Increased Size doesn't do that. I would make a spell for weapons T: Group.

The Phantom Armorer [ReTe(An,He) 30]
. . . R: Touch, D: Momentary, T: Group
The magus transforms iron bars (or other ready iron), wood, leather, etc. into a crafted and formed weapon or armor, as if a craftsman had worked to the magus’s instructions. The magus must succeed in a Perception + Finesse roll substituting for the smith’s Craft: Armorer or Craft: Weaponsmith roll, with +3 to any Ease Factor. Failure means that the device also fails to function; a botch means it has hidden flaws.
. . . Base 4 (metal/wood), +1 Touch, +2 Group, +2 requisites, +1 flexibility

I based this off of The Phantom Blacksmith (Cov p.51). I figured there are almost always materials of plant and animal origins in weapons and armor, especially armor. I'm not sure if I have to keep the +1 for flexibility. I may well pick up The Phantom Blacksmith, too - great for horseshoes, lab tools, farm implements, etc.

If you strip their Might then you destroy the vis they contain is how we always did it. So you could PeVi monsters to death but then your party will be real pissed.

Ok, cool.

Two of us were saying you should ban them. They are tedious for what they do. But we play Ars Magica so we can't not grab the XP if it is available.

I know a few elementary teachers... write a one page letter to a wizard about your most recent magical lab experiment actually sounds like not a half bad assignment. Huzza outsourcing to use child labor!

I'd honestly prefer nothing custom at character generation as I am not entirely familiar with creation of spells. Now, I can read through the guidelines in the core book, but that doesn't mean I'll be comfortable with approving custom spells.

Unless MC has an option to let me build spells so I can test them out to make sure you have the mechanics right?

As far as DEO goes, I like the idea of destroying the vis if you destroy the creature/demon. I'm not above letting you strip it for parts for study/research if anything is left of it, but no vis.

As far as correspondence goes, if you want to spend the time distracting yourself in a season to write 3 letters and gain 1 XP, that's on you. And we'll throw in the fact that you are going to lose ~10ish days in a season with the letter writing - writing a letter, receiving the response, reading the response, validating what was in the response, writing the next letter, sending it off, repeat - you'll get the penalties for being distracted. Page 103 shows a penalty of -10 to your lab total in a season you are distracted. That kind of penalty is a bit much to overcome in the beginning of your career, but after a few years it might not be. But it does put the onus on the character to decide if they want to spend that valuable lab time writing 3 letters a season for 2 years just for a low-level tractatus and 8 extra XP.

Does that include seasons spent in the lab after apprenticeship, or only apprenticeship? If it's both, I'll probably have to come up with a new concept because there are nearly no suitable spells for what I'm trying to build. I could probably find enough to fill up spells from apprenticeship, but even then I'm going to have to hunt around a lot.

Normally I'm just messing around with R/D/T parameters to get what I want out of spells. That makes them easy to build and to approve. There are a few I have in mind that are rather critical and are a little more than that, but they're at least based off of existing spells.

I can't speak to MC on that subject. I just don't know.

No custom spells is tough. It kills off about half of the nice character concepts out there...

Maybe, I'll go for something more mainstream then...

What is MC?

You really should get comfortable in a hurry. Most of what people tend to do are like his armor spell where we are taking an existing spell and modifying it. That is pretty much what the spells in the book are for. If we are doing adventures then we are probably going to be doing spontaneous spells, which we will generate on the spot.

Citation needed?

Base effect is wierd, turning logs into the a sword hilt is higher base than turning bars into a sword blade. otherwise it is the same spell as the blacksmith one. I think you still need flexibility because you can make chain or plate or whatever.

I'm going to go read up on inventing your own spells and see if I can wrap my head around them enough to allow them. But I will be relying upon you guys to help me where I am not feeling comfortable, which you guys have already done a bang-up job on so far!

And for future reference, MC = MetaCreator.

Which attribute are you going to use with finesse?

Dexterity? Or Perception?

EDIT: and do you need a craft for re craft magic?

It's not really that hard once you get used to magnitudes and what level all the range and stuff are.

We can generally police each other for most of it. We are already on the site that spends a lot of it's time peer reviewing spells any way, lol. Some things might come up where we need you to lay the hammer down on how they work, like the Demon's Oblivion thing.

You do not need the craft to craft with magic.

So I've done a bit of research on inventing spells, and it really doesn't seem all that difficult. However, I've got some input and need some feedback on the following custom spells please.

Object of Increased Size is MuTe 15, with Touch/Sun/Ind for Range/Duration/Target. Per the guidelines for MuTe spells on page 154, a base 4 spell can grow something 8 times in previous volume. The original spell indicates that only the original mass of the object is affected, so multiple castings of the spell don't change the new volume. If we keep the new spell as base 4, and alter for the new duration (dropping 5 levels from Sun to Concentration), we end up with a level 10 spell to decrease dimensions and weight to 1/2 original as the original spell indicates to double dimensions and increase weight 8 times.

I'm curious how you got to a level 25 spell here. I'm assuming you used some calculation based on the dimensions, but I'm having a hard time making the math come out. Your spell description halves the dimensions, then halves again to 1/4, then again to 1/8, then finally to 1/16...but your weight is way off. 1/4000? Going by the original spell of increasing 8 times, and using the number of halves you got for dimensions, your weight reduction should be 1/8 to 1/16 to 1/32 to 1/64, not 1/4000. And if we are increasing by 1 magnitude for every halving of dimensions/weight, your final spell level should be 30 if my math is right? Or is it 25, but you've got the weight wrong?

And don't forget that you need a requisite for the appropriate Art depending upon the target itself (which is in the original spell).

How does doubling the base make this a level 30 spell when the original is a level 20? Is it just +1 magnitude for every +1 increase in base? I ask because none of the other details (Range, Duration, Target) are changed, and instead of +2 Group you have +2 Requisites. I just need help understanding how you got to level 30 here.

It will depend upon the task at hand. Some things you need Dexterity for, others you'll need Perception for. I'm not trying to be mysterious with the answer, it's just that I cannot blanket an answer when it truly does depend upon what you are trying to do.

Inspiring concept, sir_swindle.

You could CrMe them smart (raise int), or use CrMe/MuMe to stimulate your pupils motivation, or to create addictive school (conditioning). You can visualize by creating CrIm simulators. You can create corpses for doctor's to poke around in.


None of the stats help you learn, but doing enchanted items to increase Com would help teachers teach. I generally wanted him to be a nice guy so mind-controlling students into having good study habits won't work.

I think the key will be literacy and good teachers. It is trivial to get a grog up to what ever level you have a book for. The trick will be finding the prodigies (since I can't make them :cry: ) and letting them spend years getting practice XP so that they can really hit the outer bounds on what a carpenter can do.

I assume Ghost is not going to want to touch original research with a 50 cubit pole?

Hi all, I was thinking of a traveling Verditius with a specialty in shrinking things so that they fit inside his mobile lab.

I see callen already is proposing a shrinking spell, as always at the forefront! :smiley:

From Core,the shrinking spells I remember are Beast of Minuscule Proportions, Base 4 MuAn, reduces size by 2, Preternatural Growth and Shrinking, MuCo Base 3, reduces size by 2. On the other hand, MuTe Base 4 guideline to increase object by 8 times for volume, which seems a +1 size increase, no? (which is weird, because it affects metal, but I don't see extra magnitudes for that).

[strike]So I would think that each magnitude devoted to growth is +1, each magnitude to reduce in size is -2. To decrease an inanimate object to 1 object to 1/4000th its volume would be Base 4 for -2 (1/64th), +2 Magnitudes puts it at 1/4096th, no? So Base 4, +1 Touch, +1 Conc +2 Metal/gems +2 smaller sizes = MuTe 30. For worn clothing and jewelry, and some other things, you could go forR: Personal, perhaps?[/strike]
Well, anyway, my math and Ars lore might be off, but can't write anymore now, will try again tonight.

*edit: ahh, I realize I was off because shrinking is -2/ magnitude, so +1 mag for shrinking is a -4 size total and 1/4096th the volume. callen's numbers appear correct to me,

3 sizes is a X10 increase in actual size which is volume (ARM5 192), so x8 is about +2 size (or maybe the rounding goes the other way? it is pretty much splitting the difference.)

Hmmm, I was thinking of being an enchanter since I can't think of a way to directly help the school magically and muggles are perfectly capable of using magic items. Enchantment is too broad for a Magical Focus right? I would have to narrow it down to magical clothing or some such? Just so you know there will be another one in town, I don't think my home game has ever lamented having a second skilled enchanter.