Defense against Scrying?

If a magus learns that he is being scryed, what are some ideas that can prevent it, other than raising an aegis? Also, is there a way to detect Who is scrying you?

Creo Vim General - "Create a magical shell which gives false information about the target to Intellego spells with level less than half its (level plus one magnitude)."?

R: Touch D: Conc. T: Ind. effect in talisman with item maintains concentration to allow changes to the false information? A R: Pers. D: Sun T: Ind. version of level 50 will block level 22.5?

The guideline specifies the spell's level and not penetration, so how does that work?

As to who, there are some spells in HoH:TL in the Guernicus section that can identify casting sigils, although there are also ways to falsify sigils.

Also, Mastering common scrying spells and selecting the Magic Resistance special ability can help.

As of...Transforming Mythic Europe (I think), Perdo Vim spells can now canonically create anti-magic wards. So "Hermetic Scrying" is probably a close enough concept (or, failing that, Hermetic Intelligo Corpus or Hermetic Intelligo Mentem) to be able to use the "specific type of magic" PeVi guideline. Use a Circle/Ring , and it'll prevent scrying effects from being cast on targets within the circle.

Personally, I would rule that 5 Intelligo TeFo's is equivalent to 1 full Form, so you could lump a few TeFo's together and still use the focused guideline. But that's just me, not any RAW that I'm aware of.

(EDIT - I would say that "Non-sensory-based Hermetic Intelligo magic" is probably good enough limiter to justify using the focused Guideline.)

Also - if you can detect it (via it bouncing off your parma), it's being cast on you. Which means that PeVi countermagic can be cast on it just fine at touch range.

Such spells affect other spells - hence don't need to penetrate. Instead they use a comparison of spell levels.

TME p.109 Impede the Impertinent Interloper apparently uses

with untypical Duration and Target, and tries to make sense of that choice in the spell description. Certainly this guideline is also good for spells to block Imaginem scrying effectively.


I haven't checked the reference in Transforming Mythic Europe but it certainly seems that such a spell would need more to target effectively. Casting a spell on a room that dispels everything in the room that happens for a duration, or on a target that dispels everything (appropriate) that touches the target is the sort of messing with targets that rego wards do but we haven't seen other magic do.

It doesn't fly that one can dispel a spell at some future date by targeting a bunny with duration Moon effect now, Perdo vim needs to target Vim.

I suppose I'll now check TME and find that I'm mistaken. (actually I could probably go back to GotF and Phillipus Niger's rune wizard shackle thing).

Detecting who is scrying runs into the problem of you can tell the sigil of the spell, but I don't know of any published guideline that will let you identify the exact caster of a spell (You can cast Intellego Corpus magic to determine which person a hair belongs to, but Intellego Vim on a spell lets you determine the sigil, rather than directly who the caster is.) Perhaps a Mirror of Opposition spell of ridiculous level would turn it around, but that would probably be a ritual.

Things to prevent - with sight of the active magics, you should be able to see if the scrying is on you or an item or place you are in. If they are scrying through a fireplace or scrying your room, move somewhere else. If it's on you, they can probably scry through disguises so you're probably best off trying to dispel it. You could try closing your eyes and casting spells that create blinding lights at random, so anyone scrying will face blinding flashes they're not prepared for - worth a try for Ignem specialists.

Indeed. Spells like HoH:TL p.73f Aura of Inconsequence or TME p.109 Impede the Impertinent Interloper overextend existing guidelines by fiddling with spell parameters (ranges, durations and targets).

You can:
(1) grandfather them into your saga as lucky flukes during an experiment, which exceed Hermetic theory and for that were passed on,
(2) rule them out of your saga because of flaws in their design, or even
(3) request them to be errataed, hence thrown out of the books (with verrry little chance for success).
You shouldn't use them as templates for whole new generations of spells, or risk to ruin existing spells and Virtues.

I prefer (1), because by themselves these spells are rather harmless and colourful, showing that Hermetic magic can be an art. Any extensions of their concepts need to be passed by rigid troupe scrutiny, though.


A sigil can be spoofed, of course, but concluding the magus from his sigil should be an Intelligence + Order of Hermes Lore (personalities) stress roll, shouldn't it?


Can you use a spell as an arcane connection to its caster?

Yes, ... if that caster has the Minor Hermetic Virtue Tethered Magic (HoH:TL p.107) or the Minor Hermetic Flaw Fettered Magic (HoH:TL p.108). That is, generally you can't!


This has been discussed before - the actual spell in question is a PeVi anti-teleportation ward, which prevents anyone from using ReCo magic to move into it (or out, I think). And yes: prior to this spell, that kind of guideline hadn't been that clearly laid out as being used outside of Rego. I believe one of the beta-testers for TME chimed in at one point with "Wow, we missed that one, didn't we!"

It was also (at least to me) the final nail in the coffin of the "are non-instant perdo effects just suppressions, or do they actually destroy the thing in question, and what if the target wasn't there at the time of casting?" questions. For that reason (and because I like anti-magic wards), I'm personally fine with it being canon. However, I can understand why others may take issue with it (for reasons you mention.)

I agree with you, Erik. So, if I were to detect that I was being scried, via Invisible Eye Revealed (ArM pg. 157), I could use Unraveling the Fabric of Imaginem on myself to stop the scry? Does knowing it exists mean I have perceived it enough to target it? I suppose you could also do Wind of Mundane Silence or something similar, but that would target all effects including ones you might not want dispelled.

The limit of Arcane connection says "Hermetic magic cannot affect an unsensed target without an Arcane Connection." There have been some pretty vague intellego spells published to make range road viable. I'd say that any sensory target intellego spell or any spell that allows you to sense the presence of your target would suffice to allow a counter spell.

Invisible eye revealed specifically tells you that you can feel the scrying spell. That counts as sensing for me.