Deft Form while in human form?

What bonus does Deft Form provide if in human form?

I would hope it allows no voice and no gestures without penalty regardless of the magus not being able to make voice or gestures or not wanting to make them for whatever reason. I.e. Deft Form as a combination of subtle and quiet magic but limited to one form.


Yes, that's what it does. Nothing restricts it to non-human forms.

Thanks for the clarification.

Deft Mentem is a darn good virtue...

Also Deft Vim: casting Vim spells unnoticed can be quite handy.

Take note anyway that using no voice makes R: Voice spells useless. Though you could be talking about the weather and using R: Voice spells on anyone who your voice reachs, magi with Deft Form tend to have more R: Eye or R: Sight spells on that Form than ordinary magi.

ooooh... MuVi... to get no cast penalties onanother spell while casting the Vi with no spell per form; oh you sly fox, I'd paw you a diploma if I could.

And also ReVi. Intangible Assasins need to love the Deft Vim virtue. You learn a of R: Sight, D: Sun version of the Intangible Tunnel and a spell to shapesift into a harmless looking bird, then fly over your tatget, cast your tunnel to it, fly back to your comfortable sanctum and start casting spells through the tunnel.


Deft Form is not a general waiver of all kinds of casting penalties for its Form. If unsure, better discuss this with your troupe once more.


Yes, years ago I had a MuVi specialist doing this. He had a slew of CrVi spells of various Range/Duration/Target which he would then turn into whatever he wanted. Along with Deft Vim, he didn't have to make any gestures or sound to do all sorts of fun spontaneous magic. Or use Facilitate the Stifled (Form) Spell to apply it to all your formulaic magic you don't want to change in other ways.

Though not really clear, I think the statement is in reference to Facilitate the Stifled (Form) Spell (HoH:MC p.36). This doesn't solve the issue for spontaneous spells and other scenarios (e.g. multiple casting without as much multiple casting on the MuVi spell), but it does allow you to cast your formulaic spells of any Form without noise/gestures via Deft Vim (or Mastery 3 with each Facilitate the Stifled (Form) Spell or similar).

Re-reading this, are you perhaps mixing up form (that is, shape) and Form (the hermetic Art of manipulating one specific aspect of reality).
Deft form helps with one hermetic Form, regardless of the shape you're wearing at the time.

You cannot take Deft Form (human) and expect to suffer no penalties for lack of words or gestures while using any hermetic Form, as long as you wear a human shape.

If this was not what was asked, I apologies, but re-reading the question, I became unsure.