Question about how a sahir's magic might be detected by Hermetic magic. Normally I'd say that this is fairly easy, but re-reading through ROP:I it says infernal powers used by demons cannot be detected, whilst those used by infernalists or others can be.
I suppose the first question is do infernal Djinn also benefit from their powers not being detectable by hermetic magics?
The second question would be, from what I understand, Solomonic magic is basically getting a spirit to create an effect on your behalf - and each spell is related to specific spirits (again, not too sure about this as I'm still trying to get to grips with Solomonic magic), so if a shair's Naranj is cast using an infernal Djinn to fuel it, is it detectable by hermetic magics? (my assumption would be yes but I'd like to know what people think)
I don't think this is exactly right. The rule actually is: The lies of infernal creatures cannot be detected.
If a Demon throws a fireball at you... it will detect as an Infernal Realm generated fireball. If the demon lies to you, including (in most readings) illusions, then it can not be detected (unless if course the demon would want it to be detected.
As far as I remember that is the case, but only in regards to the Lies of such infernal Djinn.
I would (probably) rule that only the Solomonic Storytelling magic Naranj would qualify as lies. So these might be more powerful against the hermetics as they MIGHT not be detectable. I don't have most of these books infront of me at the moment of course so I am curious at hearing other interpretations.
from page 80
Which is very distinct from demons being immune to Intelligo.
Are infernal realm associated Djinn Demons with respect to "reveals only what the demons want you to believe"? I'd probably rule it as such, after all intellego is "almost completely useless against the infernal realm". I imagine that "demons" was used because the authors weren't being careful with their language.
Certainly if there is an infernal might creature with cunning rather than inteligence i'd make its desires appropriately simple. Also demons aren't necessarily brigher than the PC's (or even frequently if you want to judge by the yardstick of int scores).
Does anyone want to make a case for why the game would be more fun if most of the limit of the infernal was restricted to only demons rather than all creatures of infernal might (or any subset)?
I don't think that is the question, or in question. But does the Infernal Realm include infernal tainted (but mortal) magi or any magic users... by reading was no.
What does this exactly mean for non-illusion magic. For an Infernal Fireball may look like anything the infernal creature wants (within the limits of its understanding and creativity) to Magic Intellego effects?
In this case it seems that you would argue that Infernal Djinn would likely make their magic look like Magic realm effect until they had a plot or plan that required otherwise. Y/N?
It really depends on the Djinn in question. Generally, I'd guess Infernal Djinn would be more likely to 'appear' as Magic Realm related, as normal Djinn are creatures of the Magic Realm. Depending on the Djinn in question they might not even 'think of themselves' as truly creatures of the Infernal - this can be a particularly fun way to play 'corrupted' Djinn. Demons generally can 'mask' as creatures of any Realm, though I think the 'demonic clergyman' is slightly more of a modern trope than a medieval one.
I try to treat most of the lesser limits of magic as 'hard' rather than soft, outside of spells made using original research in an attempt to bypass them, or otherwise specifically noted as using effects not fully incorporated into hermetic magic.
"Piercing the [Realm] Veil" then, can reveal the regio boundaries of any regio of the relevant realm, but would also reveal Infernal Regios 'masquerading' as a regio of the relevant [Realm]. The same rule would be true for other Intellego spells designed to notice Magical or Fairie creatures, etc. That said, "I cast Demon's Eternal Oblivion just in case" can get a little boring as a player response to this particular limit of Intellego Magic, so it's important to avoid over-using it.
I prefer supernatural creatures to be less uniform. Not everything with Infernal Might should be a full-fledged demon, not every Faerie creature should be a storytelling "Faerie", and not every Magical being should be eternal and unchanging.
Can some Infernal Djinn count as Demons with the immunity discussed? Probably. Keeping the players guessing isn't a bad thing.
Reading through Against the Dark, and got to the dragon section (pp104).., this makes it clear that InVi (Infernal Realm) spells can determine if a Dragon is Infernal. No discussion about the infernal issues associated with demons. It goes out of its way that a Magic Spell will not work on an Infernal Dragon. This seems to indicate that Infernal creatures do not fall under the Limit of the Infernal.