I'd allow something like this, with the following guidelines: PeVi: Base 30, +4 for Range: Arcane Connection, +4 for a special Target in line with the Symbol Target from HoH:MC. For a nice round level of 70. Of course it'd need to be a Ritual, for the level, and again to be in line with the Symbol Target.
So, IMS, it'd be something that just isn't done very often. It might be something to do if you've been served with a declaration of Wizard's War, or suspect you're about to be served with one. Of course, if an enemy happens to have an AC to you behind their Aegis, you'll have to penetrate that. Good Luck.
Also, if you have any Lesser/Invested items floating around that you haven't yet decayed your Connection to, I hope you don't mind losing them.
For something like lab total, it doesnĀ“t really matter if a character is min-maxed, generally it only means they can make slightly better things or make them slightly faster, so i tend to be generous about it.
All character choices doesnt have to be a story or exciting.
No, but it should be interesting. You have a lab helper specialist, he has 5 Int and the Lab helper virtue and a MT of 5. He adds 15 to your lab total. You have to feed him a pawn of (some form) vis to keep him healthy. Something like that. Or he's Jewish. Or something. This is Mythic Europe, your lab helper (who is kept holed up in the lab 2 seasons a year, at least) should be suitably warped, in some fashion.
As far as a virtue that just provides a dedicated lab assistant I'm apposed.
IMS lab assistants have to be companion level characters(or better), apprentices, or familiars. There are Virtues & Flaws that provide an NPC loyal to a pc (Ghostly Warder, Dependent, Mentor, True Love, Ect.) I suppose the NPC could be created capable of serving as a lab assistant. I might allow it but those characters will all come with extra baggage that makes them a bit more then just a bonus. (One of the characters in my current saga is actually a spirit of knowledge and magic that serves as a super lab assistant. As I have posted before yes his name is Bob, no he doesn't live in a skull)
Another way to look at it is that an Apprentice's major benefit is as a lab assistant. Apprentices are a fairly significant in game accomplishment. Even then apprentices have some downsides. They (usually) have to be trained to be useful, they suck seasons away from their parent, and they only stick around for 15 years. A dedicated lab assistant seems to be better then an Apprentice. For me a virtue that provides such a resource to a Magus and does nothing else would not be the best addition to the game.
This is not necessarily part of ArM5, however. The Laws of Contact/Association/Similarity is a modern way of looking at magical thinking. For a more medieval concept, try the Secret Book of Albertus Magnus*, where a 'law' is reported as pars pro toto, the part for the whole. "Albertus Magnus" explains that the part represents the whole because it was once part of it. The whole cannot represent the part. So for example, the finger is part of the hand, but the hand was never part of the finger. A second principle from "Albertus Magnus" is affinity, which explains why your clothes become arcane connections to you (but again, you don't become an arcane connection to them) -- you owned the clothes, they didn't own you.
*There were several of these around in the medieval period, not all by the same author and almost certainly none of them penned by Albertus Magnus (thus my use of quotes above). These are later thanthe canonical setting for ArM5, but a darn sight closer to the 13th century than Frazer, Mauss, and Bonewitz.
Mark
Edit: Postscript -- The seven principles outlined in the Secret Book form the beginning of the A&A chapter on Experimental Philosophy: if my memory serves me these are contagion, similarity, antipathy, affinity, anthropocentrism, occult virtues and astrology
About the Hermetic geniuses: If Inventive Genius is so Ć¼ber, why is it only a Minor Virtue? This makes it highly accessible. Puissant Magic Theory by itself isn't a one-way ticket to genius-status either, as most Bonisagi have this.
The magi doing groundbreaking research may have Affinity with their Puissant Magic Theory, Inventive Genius, Mythic Intelligence +5 and perhaps some of the other nice virtues to help your research and experiments succeed and not blow up: Cautious with Magic Theory, Cautious Magic, Learn Magic Theory from Mistakes...
Never take Inventive Genius before you have taken Puissant AND Affinity with Magic Theory. ItĀ“s a pretty lowend Virtue really.
ItĀ“s only valid when doing something NEW and the bonus is just 1 higher than for Puissant MT which is much more valuable overall.
Given the rules have Inventive Genius, Puissant, and Affinity with Magic Theory it feels like a stretch to have a 4th minor virtue that would stack into this area of the game; as the three virtues give a substantial boost. Add Vertidius in too for further lab totals.
I like the previous suggestion that considers using a custom Major virtue, which grants extra scope. Fae Blood has a minor and major version, and I think the same could be done for Inventive Genius, where it is converted (not added to) to a major virtue. As a major virtue it could even be made more "powerful" than the additional scope of Lab Helper too. It is after all the defining aspect of the Magus if this is done.
The additional benefits should imho be different from the existing other virtues and flaws too; I'd be resistant to stack minor virtues together.
Perhaps elapsed lab time is altered by considering the arts slightly higher for time calculation purposes, or lab total has a set minimum based upon art combinations, or a free lab specialisation is chosen at character creation which applies automatically and cannot be removed? etc,
Better yet, show me in RAW where it explicitly defines new.
If I invent A Ball of Abysmal Fire spell from first principles without a lab text is that "new"?
My point is that new is vague and undefined, I tend to agree that lab texts should not be allowed, but if a Cr or Ig or CrIg specialist without access to Ball of Abysmal Fire lab text has the wherewithal to invent it from first principles, I'm hard pressed to say no.
Same with putting an effect into the device, if I know the effect, I don't get Inventive genius? What if I invented it from first principles? What if I'm experimenting to pull it off?
It's another ambiguity and is saga dependent, IMO.
After rechecking, hmm, it is somewhat ambigious. Unclear if the "new" belongs only to spells or the other things listed after... IĀ“ve always played it as only being for explicitly new things, but with much higher bonus.
Ie placing the focus one "inventive" as in inventing new things.
Considering how small the bonus is, i would say itĀ“s likely meant to be a general bonus to lab totals.
I wasn't saying that being a Verditius was a requirement. I was saying that we already have a large amount of lab enhancing virtues as options.
As a distraction I find the lore which discourages Magi helping each other to be very odd too, especially for lab-rat style Bonisagus and Verditius. Sure I can see some magi disliking it, and some hating it, but there are far too many potential benefits for magi who choose to work together to say that they would not help each other.
Ah, but it goes further than that. If you read the "new" as part of "new spells" only, that means the virtue is ALWAYS added to lab total.
Annoying how i missed how it could be read like that for so long...
Disagree. 3 isnĀ“t a large amount by any count. And no Major ones. And 2 of those are not really specifically lab enhancing.
And they DO join together in covenants after all, yeah i agree very much indeed.
Yup, if it's new to the magus, and they don't have a translated lab text to create it from, whether it is a spell or creating an item, they get the bonus.
Another side effect is that a magus with Inventive Genius always gets the bonus on Longeivty Rituals, since they are all individualized and new every time. And even if the magus is recreating the LR from scratch to take advantage of increased arts scores and anything else that might have a lab total, I'd be inclined to allow it, he is taking an entire season off, and starting from scratch to create a better ritual, not relying on what he's done in the past.
So Inventive Genius has some odd quirks. The more we talk about it, the more I'm inclined to say that Inventive Genius applies to things done in the lab, period. It might deserve a HR name to go along with it[1]. We have virtues like Book Learner which adds +3 to the quality of books. I think it's very powerful, and I tend not to make my characters with it, because it smacks of being overpowered. Method Caster gives +3 to formulaic spells, and spontaneous spells can be cast with bonuses from Philosophae and Artes Liberales at the expense of time. Getting a +3 is easy there for 10 xp with Artes Liberales and Philosophae scores of 1, with a specialty of ceremonial magic in one of the two. Not to mention the bonuses mentioned in HoH:Societas.
[1] I'm still inclined to be against a virtue that applies exclusively to a lab assistant, but if it was a virtue like Lab Rat: You prefer to be in your lab working, add +3 to all your lab totals. I think the case of helper only no longer applies, but as for a general lab bonus virtue, I think there's certainly precedent for one to exist, certainly at the +3 power level.
No, thatĀ“s how i USED to read it. But if "new" only relates to "new spells" then wether its new to the magi or thereĀ“s a labtext becomes irrelevant.
ThatĀ“s how i ended up thinking as well, simply because otherwise the size of the bonus is just too small to be worth it.
My version of IG, that specifically is only valid for NEW things, i set the bonus to 8 IIRC, though that is in relation to my generalist "Lab rat" virtue that gives a straight +5 to all Lab totals.
And the above is the result of my original reading of the virtue. One way to feel like thereĀ“s a need to come up with another Virtue i guess.
