First, anyone have any good ideas for an InVi guideline level for detecting if something is an Arcane Connection to yourself? I'm leaning toward base 4, at the moment, but I'd like to hear others thoughts on it.
I'd like an antagonist to have a Vision Target spell to detect active Arcane Connections to his/herself, for crime-scene cleanup.
I was thinking of something along the lines of the following:
[hr][/hr]
Second, what are your thoughts on a Virtue that increases the bonus a person provides as a lab helper? Something in the vein of the Good Teacher Virtue. And what amount of bonus should such a Virtue provide? +3, +4, +5?
No comment on the first.
On the second, if this is an apprentice, why would they want this instead of Inventive Genius? If this is a personal lab helper in the vein of failed apprentice then it seems to be a virtue for only one purpose, and I'd be inclined to not allow it or introduce it.
The idea of a virtue like this popped into my head while designing a lab helper hired by the player covenant in my saga.
I don't see it being any more singularly purposed than the Good Teacher Virtue in a hired teacher, though the value of the virtue would be more long-lasting. Maybe not such a good idea...
Except the Good Teacher could, theoretically, teach any subject. The Lab helper bonus you propose is a bonus to all lab totals. In most cases inventive genius should be sufficient. If it is just an assistant without any character, I'd be inclined to make them pursue lab upgrades. Also Puissant MT and Int of 5, for three virtue points adds a total of 4 to every LT, just to get some perspective.
I keep seeing this suggested, and I don't really see how it would work.
ACs need not be symmetric (I'm not necessarily an AC to everything that's an AC to me).
Practically everything is an AC to something - most thngs would be ACs to multiple things.
A couple of books even have the air you exhale as an AC (MoH and I think Projects).
Personally I think you're better off just scrubbing the place down with T: Room PeVi (or other Target if you're outdoors).
Possibly followed by the traditional fire for limiting evidence.
Part 2:
Inventive Genius?
Puissant Magic Theory?
I must admit I don't really see the niche for it as the bonus would probably be around +3 anyway.
As a House Rule, I came up with the following guidelines for detecting AC for my future saga.
It is based on the idea that longer-lasting AC being stronger, they are proportionally easier to detect:
Level 3: Confirm that a known arcane connection to a touched object has not expired.
Level 4: Detect an unknown arcane connection that is currently being used to channel a spell of magical effect to the target. Since the connection is active, the range of this guideline is to the target, not to the arcane connection.
Level 5: Detect an unknown permanent arcane connection to the caster himself. The spell provides some indication of the nature of the arcane connection (e.g. a lock of hair). The strongest unknown arcane connection is detected first. If more than one arcane connection of the same strength exists, a random one is detected.
Level 10: Detect an unknown arcane connection of Indefinite duration to an object touched by the caster.
Level 15: Detect an unknown arcane connection of Decades duration to an object touched by the caster.
Level 20: Detect an unknown arcane connection of Years duration to an object touched by the caster.
Level 25: Detect an unknown arcane connection of Months duration to an object touched by the caster.
Feel free to adjust/modify/ignore them to fit your saga.
As opposed to the others I find this virtue to be perfectly fine. There are not many INVENTIVE geniouses out there. And frankly, if I was in the lab doing MY original research I would appreciate someone that was extremely versed in being helpful more than a chatty dude that makes me feel inferior to his bright mind. Same bonus, but the first one I would try to keep forever and the second one would might be incinerated in a "lab accident" after a while if I am a specially proud magus (quite a few of them are).
The fact that the virtue is not the most extreme optimization does not make it less interesting or useful for a character. For a benchmark, Leonardo Da Vinci or Archimedes are my idea of an Inventive Genius dude. I doubt that there have been more than 5 of them in the history of the OoH, 2 of them being Bonisagus and Notatus.
Those two you mention are the two you know of. There are countless others who might have been just as inventive, but less famous, or more focused. Who built the Antikythera mechanism? While I don't disagree entirely with your premise behind your understanding of Inventive Genius, I don't see it taken all that often, and it is usually appropriate to the character. I dislike the idea that a lab helper has a bonus, unless there is some character behind it. If it's just a means of adding a number, I'm not in favor of it. If it is a means of telling interesting stories, even vignettes, then all the better. I like the idea of a know-it-all lab assistant who might know more than the magus. I like that he has motivations, and perhaps some power to get the magi to do something for him if they want his favor. Sure they could ReMe him to make him do whatever, but perhaps that destorys his bonus.
It's not that I find the idea behind a bonus overpowering. It's that I find it relatively uninteresting, with the potential to be put on a specialist character that is little more than a number himself.
About Inventive Genius; it's a Hermetic Virtue thus it shouldn't be available to an unGifted character. However, Xavi's idea of a chatty, know-it-all professional lab assistant just brought this character to life in my head. So I'm giving it to him and he's going to be insufferably proud of it.
Now I'm curious as to how long it will be before he suffers an "accident"...
I've been hawking this character around for a bit...but check out Ysebrand in the Canaries are Dying saga here on the Atlas site. It's my take on the failed apprentice concept turned up a notch. He's going to try and become a Venditor for a Verditius. Once his history becomes better known, I can envision some fights over what he's doing. And yes, he will be an insufferable know it all, communicating it effectively and efficiently and with maximum impact.
Too low base for such an incredibly broad and powerful effect. "Arthur" might be going a bit far the other direction at the highest but it´s still a better suggestion i think. Combine his level 10 and 15 to a level 10 and the 20 and 25 for a level 15 base and it´s quite workable.
Not sure if i ever made up something similar.
The bonus is so narrow so +5 sounds just fine.
I have Minor Virtue "Diligent lab worker" give a bonus to all lab work, with a Major version "Lab rat" giving twice the bonus. (the bonus in my version is +5, which probably translates to +3 to be roughly equal to RAW levels(my Inventive Genius gives +8 to anything new))
My concern was based on the phrasing of the proposed virtue, that it is designed for an assistant character, and while it is narrowly defined, the character possessing the virtue receives no benefit from the virtue. A good teacher can go almost anywhere and teach. What does the lab assistant get? If he's used as a number, without anything story related, well, I can't imagine he's treated well. If he's an actual character that's fleshed out and played by someone in the troupe, and he can barter his lab assistance, because he's brilliant (+5 Int) skilled in MT (5 or higher) and is an excellent assistant (lab helper/lab rat) adding at least 15 to the LT, I think that's worth something, and something more than an apprentice can actually expect, because he is employed in his profession, not just learning it.
Quite true. But unless either players or GM are exploiting it or letting it be exploited, it´s a very good Virtue to have around. Or you could make a general one like what i have, but that messes up the RAW numbers a bit one way or another.
Still, a magi focused on lab stuff taking my Lab rat Virtue or similar is something that tends to work well so personally i think RAW is waaay too stingy with the lab bonus Virtues.
That's fair. He should probably have Puissant MT and Affinity with MT.
I don't have a problem with a virtue adding something to Lab Totals, but I can see it being min-maxed by Bonisagus and Verditius players, natural lab rats. The more I play 5th edition the less enamored with the mechanical virtues I become, unless a player takes those as a springboard for making interesting stories. Why does that specialist have the lab rat virtue? Just what is his story? If it's just numbers on a page, providing additional points to the lab total, I'm not excited about that.
I never understood the arguments that arcane connections only go one way.
The principle of magic involved relates to this:
If you break up object A into two pieces: B and C. B is arcane connection to C and C is arcane connection to B. The relationship should not be different because one is bigger to the other. So hair or blood from your body is arcane connection to you and you are connection to it.
This means you should be able to detect anything arcanely connected to you since the connection is two way. The question is what level.
I would get a PeVi at AC range, with a large group (group+X), momentary could destroy all arcane connections to you except perhaps the fixed ones and InVi should be able to test for those.
