Detecting vis

Hey there. Our troupe is having some debate over magical detection and vis.

Basically, as another player and I interpret it, "any magical detection" in the Intellego Vim guidelines (second to last paragraph) refers to, indeed, any InVi spell, which means any InVi spell has the capacity to detect raw vis.

However, the storyguide and one other player interprets it as "any magical detection that detects vis", simply making the level 1 guideline Realm-agnostic, but disallowing vis detection on any other InVi spell.

We're kind of in a tie, so some external input would be appreciated, although I'm clearly biased.

According to RoP:tI Infernal vis is detected as though it's Magic vis by Hermetic magic. So there is necessarily some realm-agnosticism with InVi when detecting vis. I'd have to scour RoP:F and RoP:tD to check on those.

generally level 1 detects vis, while level 4 base defines the properties of vis (art, amount) as well as alignment of an aura, so I would assume that discerning the alignment of vis would be a level 4 guideline. Of course infernal vis is going to "lie", and thus it's realm alignment is undetectable (appearing as magic to magic based wizards, and thus more likely to be used)

Infernal things, generally, don’t “lie” but demons do. It must be the active choice of a demon. For instance, you can see into an infernal regio using Pierce the Infernal Aura unless a demon is somehow actively making that not possible.

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While infernal things generally don't "lie" in the same way that demons do, it is quite explicit that infernally tainted vis is detected as just regular vis by Hermetic Magic.
Thus one should think twice before using any vis found inside an Infernal aura.

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While the topic of infernal vis is interesting, I'd like some more input on whether "any magical detection" means any InVi spell can be used to detect raw vis (within the parameter limitations) or not :slight_smile:

That paragraph you are pointing out does not indicate any InVi spell has the capacity to detect raw vis. It is clarifying "Raw Vis" will always show up as Raw Vis of the Magic Realm", despite what that the first and second paragraph of the bottom section say.

Raw Vis, when detected by Hermetic Magic, will always show up as Raw Magic Vis when detected by the Base 1 guideline.

EDIT: Your SG and other player are correct.


No, vis will not be detected by any and all InVi spells.
But any spell used on vis that is used to check if it is magical will indicate that yes, it is magical.


I would not allow just any InVi spell used in its proximity to detect vis. You would need “sight of the Vis” (InVi 1, personal, conc, sight) or something like it, could use a different sense or different target type altogether.

Hence why I specified parameter (R/D/T) limitations, but thank you.

So, RoP:F says Sense the Nature of Vis will let you identify Faerie vis, which isn't necessary to the point of nonsensical if it's a different spell that is needed for Faerie vis than Magic vis. So realm-agnosticism with InVi when detecting vis seems to be pretty broad.

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Yeah, I don't think doing a spell to detect whether you're in a Faerie regio also gives you the ability to detect vis.

My group likes to use touch/smell for the sense for detecting stuff though!

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Smell works well for certain preliminary stuff but often you need to switch to sight. Like if you want to use the spell to help you cross the regio barrier.

Thanks a lot, this should be enough to give me a rough idea. What about "Level 5: Detect any active magic"? It seems to me the paragraph talks more about the use of this guideline set rather than anything else....

Raw Vis is not active magic per say. Additionally the Base 5 is peak of other lower Base effects, which are limited to only detecting effects of a Mag or higher. It could just as easily have been written as "Detect magic of first magnitude or higher".