The aging issue is something I noticed as well. I could give him that he rolled very very well but assuming living condition modifier of +2 (better than mage average of +1), he would have +2 on 6 rolls and +3 on 6 rolls such that his appearant age should be within a year or two of his real age (44-46, not in late 30's) and does have minimum of 40 (and that assumes 12 0's on the stress no botch rolls).
Okay, I talked to Arwan and he is perfectly willing to make any adjustments as needed. No problems at all. Since we all share the power here, what are specifically the adjustments you feel are needed? Try to keep the list small 
Does he need to rebuild it all or can a couple of tweeks suffice?
My issues are Confidence Score and a few spells need to be written out &/or revised.
Some take issue with the stat improving spells. Perhaps a compromise would be to say he has not cast them yet. The Com boosting one, okay, he already did that three times. No problem with that. The Intelligence ritual is the red flag for most. I suggest taking the lower lever version, max Int +4, and say you haven't cast it yet or take some time out of your season work to pay for it (like a year maybe? What would be fair?).
I have no problems with his Mysteries, as other people have more powerful mysteries (such as almost all of you 
). He did take a Minor Ordeal. I suggest moving the Libra Focus over to being a Mystery, taking an additional Ordeal of some kind, and replacing his Twilight episode with a Minor Virtue instead. Second Sight? Take that away as a starting virtue and replace it with something else. You never developed SS over a score of 1, so it makes sense to say you picked it up later in life.
These are my suggestions. What do other people think, and Arwan, what are your ideas?
I wanted to reply to this message. This is my third attempt. Both of my original two were lost due to a computer glitch (hopefully this will not happen again). I do not normally have much time, which is why most of my replies have been brief. I feel that I have to address several points, however. The following is not in order of priority.
- Aging Vares does not have a Longevity Potion because he belongs to a tradition which believes that the premature use of a Longevity Potion is one of the unwise abuses of Magi in the Order. Two facts compete for greatest importance. The first is that it causes an inexorable, inescapable accumulation of Warping which limits a Magus' career. Forgoing a Longevity Potion for as long as possible, relying on a mix of "natural" means (e.g. good diet, good, clean environment, proper exercise, etc.) and superior, alternative magical methods such as the taking of a Familiar (something Vares has yet to do) and the pursuit of the proper Alchemical Mysteries (Unaging--something else he hasn't achieved yet) are far preferable. Vares' apparent age is a result of the fact that he made all of his Aging Rolls. In the real world, the concept of being "well-preserved" has been around for centuries, predating modern medicine. He's in his mid-40s, but looks to be in his late 30s. That's a difference of only a few years, and it is strictly natural, not the product of artifice.
The second important reason is that Vares shares several values with the Cult of Heroes. As was mentioned in the main "Development" thread, Vares is suspected by some of being a member of a "lost" line of Mutantes. His Flexibile Magic shares certain very strong elements with Mutantum Magic, and it is possible that he might have been able to learn it if he'd been Apprenticed to House Mercere instead of House Flambeau. IC, he is House Flambeau because his ancestry could not be substantiated (truthfully, he's more likely to be a descendent of the others in the original Cult of Mercury, since over nearly a thousand years there's plenty of time for the bloodline to show up almost anywhere) and because he was traded to Antoninus Exuperius by the Magus who found him, an Ex Miscellanea with Arabic ties (linking him further into his current Mystery Tradition). OOC, he's Flambeau because Marko really wanted one in the Saga (we happen to both favour the Tribunals of Hermes: Iberia treatment of Flambeau the Founder).
How does this relate to Longevity Potions? Fertility. Vares believes that Magi should be having many more children than they do, that the failure to do so is responsible for holding back the spread of Magic, and thus the "early" use of a Longevity Potion is an unacceptable check on the building of Hermetic dynasties based on blood as well as teaching. It doesn't show up on his character sheet, but Vares has already sired a number of children, and intends to have more.
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Puissant Creo: Two reasons. The first is that Marko offered it as an option for someone of the lineage of Delendar. The second patches into the above: Vares is sympathetic in both a metaphysical and a social sense to the Cult of Heroes, and the Mercurians use Puissant Creo. Also, creation/generation is a major part of Vares magic, alongside subtlety.
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Characteristics: See above. Vares thinks like the members of the Cult of Heroes. It is inexcusable that the Order has not sought to "perfect" itself. This is also something pertaining to his Alchemical studies. Refinement to create a more "ideal" self has been an inseperable part of Alchemical study, East and West, for thousands of years. Vares chose the two areas he deemed to be of greatest importance: increasing his own intellect to approach that of his Mentor (Fuego is Int +5) and the greatest minds of the Order, and overcoming his innate shyness and lack of sociability, which had been reflected in a negative Communication score. He is, as it were, "coming out of his shell", interacting more with people instead of merely watching them.
I'll note that this is about the only place that his accumulated Vis has gone, as per this sheet. I talked to Marko about Vares' acquiring a magical Astrolabe, but it wasn't clear whether he'd need to enchant it himself or whether that would constitute a separate indebtment.
- Spell Totals: Vares figures include, in years following his Mystery Initiation under Fuego (Marko took between three and five YEARS out of Vares' development to include the time taken for his Initiations and being taught specific Skills and Spells of HIS choosing by Fuego) the bonus from Celestial Magic.
"Gain the Wisdom of the Sages" was achieved from, yes, a text--Marko said that all spells were available, and it is a variation on a published spell, only applied to the individual caster instead of another recipient--courtesy of Vares' exceptional focus on Creo, Mentem, his Major Magical Focus, and other relevant points. It was his great achievement in study. He couldn't replicate it with ANY OTHER Characteristic, except maybe Perception.
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Major Magical Focus: Libra: It's Astrological, in The Mysteries, Revised, and was discussed at length with Marko before taken instead of several other possibilities because it FIT Vares almost perfectly. I was told to take a single Twilight episode and make it as intense as I wanted to risk possibly gaining a Minor or Major Virtue. I asked whether there was any specific instance I should outline, particularly regarding how or when it may have happened, and was told to just work with it. I did, treating it mechanically, and Vares benefitted from it easily. Why? Because of the low Warping Points he'd accumulated to date. The amount added to his total was incredible, but, again, because it happened relatively early in his career (about year six as a Magus, I think), he beat the Warping and so acquired the Major Virtue.
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Mystery Virtues: See #4 above. Vares spent years under Fuego's tutelage, made appropriate sacrifices in that time, and was effectively "handed over" to the GM for that period. We discussed the Mysteries he should gain, and the compromise was based on the ties between Astrology and Alchemy as major areas of study in the Islamic world and Iberia. Celestial Magic is the Virtue he's much more likely to use, since Hermetic Alchemy requires spending time in a lab extracting Vis, which is something Vares hasn't been prone to doing lately.
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Confidence Score: Vares had Self-Confident at the time he passed his Gauntlet. This gave him Confidence 2 (5). I took it at Marko's urging. He just gained another 2 Confidence Points in the course of the game, so I included them on his sheet, giving him Confidence 2 (7).
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Spells: I'm perfectly willing to adjust some of the spells that have been causing people problems.
"Call Down the Stroke of Lightning" was based on "Incantation of Lightning" and the information in the Creo Aurum section of the book. I increased the range from Voice to Sight (+1 order), dropped it down to Slightly Unnatural (-2 orders from "Incantation") to indicate that it originates in the Upper Air but can come from a clear sky. With those adjustments, I set it at 30.
"Suit of the Jade Warrior" can do with some changes. I made it Slightly Unnatural because it shares properties of both Jade and pumice (weight), two naturally occurring materials, in an Elaborate Design. It don't think that it needs Muto, however, because it is possible to use Creo alone to produce Slightly or Highly Unnatural items (precedent: look at Creo Aquam; there's no mention made of Muto as a Requisite). On the other hand, maybe it should be Highly Unnatural because it adds a trait of ductability to the material.
"Gain the Wisdom of the Sages" is, as stated above, according to the rules in Creo Mentem section of the book and based on the published spell in True Lineages.
"Acquisition of the Collector's Eye" is based on "Invisible Hand of the Thief", originally published in The Wizard's Grimoire, Revised Ed.. It's been updated to 5th Ed. and the name has been changed to reflect that it is intended for gathering items at a distance instead of "theft".
Does that address most points?
I agree with your points, but it doesn't address the issue of compromise. In order to make other people more comfortable, what are you willing to compromise on? Whatever you lay aside, you can always pick up again later.
What if you took the Difficult Longevity Ritual Flaw? That could go along with your philosophy that such things are unnatural, and your quest for alchemical knowledge could be inspired by the will to overcome this. Take that as a starting virtue, and move Favors over into an Ordeal for a later mystery. Take the Libra Focus as that mystery. Move Second Sight over to being a Twilight effect, and take Self Confident as a starting Virtue (it got dropped somewhere in the various revisions).
I'm fine with all of these proposals. Replace Favors with Difficult Longevity Potion at star, get a later Mystery with the Favors Flaw as an Ordeal to account for Major Magical Focus: Libra, and have a result of Second Sight for Twilight. Self-Confident was supposed to be a starting Virtue, anyway.
Tallies come up the same, except he'll also have Difficult Longevity Potion. No objection at all to adding that to him.
Awesome! Guys, does this sound acceptable to you?
I went back and looked at the sheet. Self-Confident hadn't been left off. It was on there from the start. It's at the right-hand end of the first lines listing his Virtues. Also, as per the tradition in the books, his House Virtue was marked with an asterisk. So he all of his starting Virtues balanced, anyway, including Second Sight.
Either he'll need to have a different Minor Virtue picked up as a result of Twilight, or switch something else in. Maybe Skilled Parens (which you, Marko, kept recommending) or Unaging (fitting also with the Difficult Longevity Potion; it's hard to calibrate one properly when that kind of property is in effect).
Cool, cool.
I am waiting on other people to weigh in. It seems all of your critics have gone silent 
You mean he initiated it, losing a season over it? Contrary to what you say below, he can't have began with it, unless it was an error:
Flexible Magic (3), Alluring to Magic (1), Inoffensive to Animals (1), Puissant Creo* (0), Quiet Magic x 2 (2), Second Sight (1), Self-Confident (1), Subtle Magic (1)
3+1+1+0+2+1+1+1 = 10 virtues points.
By the way, about the Alluring to Magical beings virtue, there was a similar problem with another character here or in novus mane:
Characters who are Offensive to beings of this sort cannot take this Virtue, including those who have The Gift or Magical Air, though characters who are Inoffensive to them or have the Gentle Gift may.
He can't have it, unless he has the Gentle Gift or Inofensive to magical beings. My solution? Either take this later virtue, or trade inofensive to animals for it.
But it was a NPC, you created him later and even then, didn't set him up as an exemple to us, contrary to carmen. Carmen which is the most "close to the raw" magus here, with no mysteries or rituals on her.
Just look at the following:
- Carmen, the character you explicitely stated as an exemple, has Great Intelligence 4 (minor virtue).
- Custata has Improved Characteristics
- Marcellus has Improved Characteristics
- Octavian Of Tremere has Improved Characteristics
- Siccus al-A'war has them too
- Viola has Great Intelligence.
Vares has the equivalent of 2Improved Characteristics, + 2 Great Intelligence, at the cost of 2 seasons. I find this to be very unfair to all these players, who paid with virtue points for what they wanted.
The point behind should are that:
- A single player's stories should not dominate the campain. More story flaws, more stories
- Story flaws can't always be played out (how many have been?) and a flaw that isn't payed for is not a flaw.
However, this is not my biggest concern by far for this, I don't care much. My problem is this:
- Major Favor Flaw: He owes favors to his parens. Fine, no problem.
- Minor Story Flaw: He owes favors to his parens, who also helps him.
Can't you see? The minor flaw is not a flaw in any way, since its detrimental effects are already covered by the major. How does it makes his life worse, or create more stories? It doesn't. Thus, it isn't a flaw.
If he had, say, Parens and Ennemies, this would have been different, as this would have generated 2 different kind of stories.
There, he just gets a "free" virtue point, plus a parens.
Hum...
If he sorts out the virtue things (like "alluring to ~") and the planetary magic (which, at most, would cost him 1 season), I'd say he should take a different story flaw (One which doesn't overlap), either major or minor (he could very well write into his background that he's on good terms with his parens, although he won't derive any special benefits from it), but not add a full year.
And for the spell, as told before, as much as I find casting them "behind the scenes" to be abusive, I think beginning play with them is a very clever idea, and should give at least some council discussions when he'll try to ask for about 5*10 pawns.
The lightning spell, I have a lot of ideas to fix it, some with a lower level (like ReAu cast during a storm to ensure all lightning fall on one point (Diameter) or variable target (Concentration), with the occurence of lightning depending on the GM, and versions with Creo as a requisite), some equivalent to Incantation of Lightning. Later for this. If I have the time.
Yes, no problem for this.
With all due respect, no.
This would be unfair... to him 
The rule you gave us was 1 season per mystery. What I did (when I could) was take standard mysteries, give me the virtues and flaws, and use one season. It seems that about every other player did something similar, using up one season, and occasionnaly gaining flaws.
So, while I have issues with him being utterly flaw-less from his mysteries, I also have issues with you charging him more than one season for this
(Yeah, i know, I'm a bitch for this)
Bof...
I have no issues with him learning these from a lab text towards the end of his period, like he seems to have done, because we all did similar things. Anything else would be unfair to him.
So long as he doesn't just then went through 5 high-magnitude rituals and gained all these stat boosts, this is perfectly fine and clever IMO. He could bargain for the vis later, and cast there then (better hope he doesn't botch).
Perfectly fine IMO, and it cleans up the number of starting virtues issues I raised above. He started with 10 virtues (and no SS), lost one to his initiation, and gained SS during a twilight episode (thus higher warping).
This seems fair, although I'd have liked to know we could (in a way) "trade" warping for virtues.
No problem with this.
Ars spell rules are not always consistent.
However, in this case, you'll notice that, not only is there, afaik, no published exemple of such an "unnatural liquid", but also, from a game pow, why would someone ever need a Muto requisite if he can just add one or 2 magnitudes (like the requisite would require) to replicate its effects and create transparent stone, weightless metal, or a indestructible cloth?
Here, we're talking about a real exemple where you're easily creating a very potent armor, at a very low cost.
A question, anyway. If a simple CrTe 20 spell allows you to create for Sun duration armor waaaay better than Chain Mail, the best armor in 1220, without even the need for a finesse roll (and I remind you that Ars rules require this, p77 IIRC), at what base level would you state creating chain mail? Base 4? 3?
But Base level for creating Metal is 5...
and
Favors to someone over that his mentor 
Or else, the mentor flaw is not a flaw in any way.
IMO, though, another flaw might be better, to create different stories than the "mission" type.
And I didn't even had the time to check the threads!!! Aaaargh!!!!!!
Fixer, I am playing point-counterpoint here. Please do not mistake my tone for advisarial. Being Hegalian here, trying to forge a Synthesis.
That isn't the same list of starting V&F's I have. The original Vares at Gauntlet had Planetary Magic. I will recount though. Second Sight was dropped and moved over to a Twilight effect as well.
Ah! I didn't catch that one. Good eye
Yes, Vares needs to adjust that. Easy mistake to make.
There is no difference between PC's and NPC's when it comes to development and creation, as far as I am concerned. I use the exact same rules for all NPC's that I allow you to use (which means that the NPC's also get the goodies I give out to you as well). I didn't include his spells because the list was too long. Now that we have 2 pages for character sheets, I can delete him from his original position and put him at the end with all bells and whistles if you guys would like.
I see your point, but most minor virtues are not all that difficult to obtain; 5 seasons of training/study is equivilent to Warrior, Educated, or Arcane Lore. 7 Warping can grant Second Sight or Puisant (Art). Magic Realm Transformation, well, a year can get you enough vis-xp and time to obtain just about any minor virtue your heart desires. The stat increasing spells took much study time to get the Arts he needed, plus lab time.
Everyone has little gifts or will eventually recieve them. I had Carmen trained in spells by her father for a season or two, gaining twice as many levels as she normally could in a season at least two different times. Octavian and Inigo have unique mysteries and are only loosley tied to a cult. Dimir Taar (you 
) has a huge closet full of undefined magic items, and I pretty much gave ou carte blanc to design any magic item you want and say it was already there. You can do that a bunch, yet you have chosen not to exploit it as of yet. When we went back to the covenant, you should have grabbed the Wand of Total Faerie Destruction .
You know I view some story flaws as a continual constant. Some stoy flaws have een relevant, some more than once, others I have not had a chance to deal with yet. I have a master list of all Flaws that can generate separate stories. But again, some story flaws do not need a separate story if they govern and alter your acts and actions. Octavian has felt the pressure of both his Mentor and Favors Flaws, yet neither has been direct in his face. Just in the background.
Fuego is not his Parens, just his mystagogue and Mentor, and the favors are to his cult (which Fuego is the current representative of). Mentor is actually a Virtue. It was a Virtue in four previous editions. The only reason it is now a flaw is because it can be used to generate or motivate stories. A mentor cannot tell you what to do, only advise you. Favors totally changes the dynamic. The two combined keep Vares very hooked into his cult and societas, and gives me the power as SG to motivate him in ways that can affect the greater story at large. To me, this is an example of two story flaws that actually work well together. And it is one minor and one major. What about the other players who have two Major story flaws?
Happy Reading!
Okay, here is my idea of a compromised revision…
Starting Characteristics, Virtues & Flaws
Characteristics: Int +5, Per +2, Com -3, Pre +1, Str +1, Sta +1, Dex +0, Quik +1
Virtues: +0 Gifted Hermetic Magus, +F Puissant Creo, +3 Flexible Formulaic Magic, +2 Quiet Magic (twice), +2 Great Intelligence (twice), +1 Planetary Magic, +1 Self Confident, +1 Subtle Magic
Flaws: -3 Difficult Longevity Ritual, -3 Driven (to prove his own ideas), -1 Mentor, -1 Obsession (his curiosity), -1 Warped Magic (roll of silence as enhanced Sigil), -1 Weird Magic
Then for Improvement Rituals, he just uses the one, CrMe30, to improve his communication. Ditch the other spell and call that season a wash, he used it to get the vis he needed (I rolled three dice at home; HTG 8, 5, & 3; no botch).
He did roll a fair twilight comprehension, I went over that with him back many months ago. I will grant him Second Sight for that.
Then he is Initiated into Celestial Magic (Minor Ordeal, 2 seasons), Major Magical Focus – Libra (Medium Ordeal, 2 seasons), then Hermetic Alchemy (no Ordeal, 1 season). The Minor Ordeal was the loss of Planetary Magic, and the Medium Ordeal was increasing Mentor to Favors. Fuego was his mentor and Mystagogue, and now he has a stronger and more direct influence over him.
Arwan, put the Inoffensive/Alluring thing on the back burner for now. I see what you are going for; you are alluring to Magical Animals because you are Inoffensive to Animals to begin with. But this mismatched pair hasn’t come into play yet and I doubt it will in the immediate future. If you changed it to Inoffensive & Alluring to all Magic beings it would give you a sudden unfair advantage over the other players in the specific setting your character is currently located in.
So then the developed Vares would look like this…
Characteristics: Int +5, Per +2, Com +0, Pre +1, Str +1, Sta +1, Dex +0, Quik +1
Virtues: +0 Gifted Hermetic Magus, +F Puissant Creo, +3 Flexible Formulaic Magic, +2 Quiet Magic (twice), +2 Great Intelligence (twice), +1 Self Confident, +1 Subtle Magic, +M Celestial Magic, +M Major Magical Focus – Libra, +M Hermetic Alchemy
Flaws: -3 Difficult Longevity Ritual, -3 Driven (to prove his own ideas), -1 Obsession (his curiosity), -1 Warped Magic (roll of silence as enhanced Sigil), -1 Weird Magic; -M Favors
(I am using my strange style of notation: + = Virtue, - = Flaw, 1 = Minor, 3 = Major, M = Mystery, T = Twilight)
Then after that, fix the spells and I am good to go 
And I feel VERY uncomfortable with this. Why do you think I've not said "I search for my wand of ultimate manhood" yet?
Having minor trinkets (say, level < 10, like magical lightning) might be fine to me, but finding a staff of faerie destruction would be, imo, very unfair to other players and possibly overshadow them.
Well, you actually makes this worse!
To me, he had a flaw that was not a flaw.
To you, he has a flaw that is a virtue;)
However, you have the mentor wrong: A person of some importance, wealth, or wisdom has taken an interest in your life, and at times provides you with minor material aid and advice. However, at some point your mentor will have a small favor or two to ask of you.
Having Favors to the same person just supercedes the negative aspects of the mentor flaw. What stories can the Mentor generate that Favors to the mentor can't? None. Thus, it is in no way a story flaw.
What is worse? Owing favors to a mentor that won't help you (Favors)? Or owing favors to a mentor that will help you (Favors + Mentor)? Things would be different if he owed favors to someone else. Another representative of the cult maybe?
Mission flaws are very convenient, the problem is that he's got 2 such flaws relating to the same character, with one (the major) effectively canceling the other (the minor). With, say, Favors and Close Family ties, you could have told both mission stories and family ones. Octavian has a similar problem, although this is lessened by his mission flaws relating to different characters.
Well, to me, it is an exemple of 2 story flaws that don't work together at all.
It doesn't generate more stories, and actually makes the player's life better.
A better exemple could be True Love and Ennemies, for a Romeo and Juliett idea.
As per characters, there is just one: Ludovico has Pagan (Major, "always on") and Ennemies (Major). Both can be used to tell different stories and actually make his life worse.
(Note however, that, to me, these are not flaws in any way until he's suffered from these or they've generated stories)
Anyway, although it might cut the deal in a real time saga, when one supposedly can have the time to go through each player's story flaws, in a slooooooow pbem, allowing players to have multiple ones is an error, since it is very unlikely that each flaw will come into play.
An exemple? Although max is a very good SG, my single story flaw hasn't yet come into play in ad fons. Just because things move so slowly.
7 warping might. Once. And you've gained a flaw before, btw Also, the virtues you mention are a minority
How do you obtain an affinity, apt student, berserk, book learner, cautious with, clear thinker, common sense, death prophecy, enduring constitution... (just going down the list)?
Note, too, that in a slow-moving game, 5 seasons may be a great advantage. Consider how we haven't yet go through 1 single season of study. What if we all had characters fresh from apprenticeship?
You could use something like this:
If you balance a virtue with a flaw, no other cost.
Else, 1 season = 1 "flaw" point.
Major virtues require either 1 major flaw, or 1 minor flaw and 2 seasons.
You could add warping to the equation, although I'd be very wary about this. Maybe 10 warping points could replace a season?
Thus, some exemples:
1 minor virtue? 1 minor flaw or one season or 10 warping
1 major virtue? 1 major flaw, or 1 minor flaw and 2 seasons, or 1 minor/10 warping/1 season, or 1 minor/20 warping
Then there's the question of Mystery Cult lore. I'd say a minimum level of 1 for a minor virtue, 3 for a major, with every subsequent initiation requiring 10 XPs in the appropriate lore (The more you progress into a cult, the more mysteries will be taught to you. On the contrary, a cult won't teach its inner mysteries to a mere apprentice.)
Fine, for the Intelligence rituals.
Oh, and I've read them. But I'm far too lazy to be thrilled by this.
Oh, and the lightning spells. Some exemples:
Pray for the heavenly fire (ReAu 20)
Base 5, +3 sight.
This spell can only work if there's an active storm, with lightning going on. The magus designate a spot. Any lightning striking down in the next few moments will strike there. Obviously, this spell requires a lot of luck: You cast, and hope there'll be a bolt. A lightning will only strike on a 9+ on a non-stress roll, modified by both the magus and the target's luck virtue.
Call down the Heavenly Fire (ReAu 25)
Base 5, +3 sight, +2 concentration
As above, but lasts for concentration duration (roll each round), and the spot may be changed, for example to accomodate a moving target. A variant with diameter duration will target the same, fixed spot.
These 2 spells could be enhanced by a Creo requisite (But no magnitude) to ensure that lightning will strike when needed. As this just "push" things up, no further enhancement is needed. However, this will only work for the first strike of the Concentration spell (you can only push things so far).
Further enhancements:
- 1 magnitude to have it strike from dark, lightning-less clouds (this is the creo casting requisite). Level 25/30. This may strike each round.
- 2 magnitudes to have it strike from "normal" clouds (level 30/35)
- 3 magnitude to have it strike from a clear sky (level 35/40).
Marko, I hate you, I have no time to read this!!!
Just had time to had this:
Favors and all: perfectly fine IMO.
Alluring and all... Well, to me, Innofensive and alluring to Magical Beings is perfectly fine and legit. Since he was already (albeit wrongly) alluring to magical beings, droping innofensive to animals for innofensive to magical beings would just right things up without being unfair to the others.
Unless someone else objects, I'd say let him have this (inn + all to magical B) if he wants, or inofensive to magical beings and animals.
IIRC, magical animals count as magical beings, not animals, although a distinction could maybe be made between intelligent magical animals (magical beings) and cunning ones (animals). Dunno
No time to be clearer, sorry
Fixer - see my post just previous to yours. I typed it up last night while reflecting on your thoughts and ideas. My MO is to shoot my mouth off first and reflect afterwatds
As for story flaws, there is something of an old-school dynamic at play. Most of the players in this game come from a 4th edition or earlier background. I love 5th edition, but there are little nuiances from 4th that I miss. One of them is being able to choose as many story and personality flaws as you wanted without worry of lables. Most all of the Minor Story Flaws were originally +1 or +2 Virtues, as well as some of the Minor Personality Flaws (Reckless, Higher Purpose, Carefree, etceteras). In 5th edition, they are not Flaws in the sense of making your character disadvantaged. They are flaws because the can mandate actions and cause stories.
As for story flaws that have a constant effect, I would point to the example of Wirth and True Love, which has affected and altered the way that character acts the entire saga so far. I also like to comine story flaws of several characters and storyhooks. I have mashed several of them into my main story arc 
. But still, even if a storyflaw does not pertain to the current situation, you should still play it as part of your character. Your enemies may not be present, but how do you know? Be careful! Dark Secrets are always threatening to burst forth. And love for your Dependant can cause you to overreact to the Visions of another character so you round up half the covenant and go off seeking Val-Negra.
If you let it stew, it does eventually all work out. I assure you I have a grand master list I am working from.
I do see your point of how Mentor and Favors overlaps if they concern the same person. I was envisioning Favors as applying to his mystery cult, but that still focuses on his mentor. My solution was to turn Mentor into Favors as a Medium Ordeal.
The Com Ritual is low, I say let him keep it. It should be CrMe35 with a Range of Touch, since it is supposed to be direct from published material if he wants it as a Lab Text. I am strongly suggesting Arwan drops the Inoffensive/Alluring mismatched pair, and instead take Great Intelligence twice. Great Intelligence just fits the concept of Vares, the mismatched pair seems useless and out of place.
sorry about that.
I only recently noticed that a thread that I last posted to a month ago has become active. I, too, am working with limited time, so I'm going to summarise.
- I had, for some reason, thought that those with the Gift were automatically Inoffensive to Magic. Rereading the relevant passage of House of Hermes: Mystery Cults it is evident that this is no longer the case in 5th Ed., though it DOES cause many additional complications. For instance, if all MAGICAL animals react as badly to those with the Gift as "mundane" animals, then how can Magi approach enchanted horses to ride them without exercising ReAn spells? Wouldn't most prospective Familiars shy away from Magi? Spirits should resent them. Etc. It was my understanding based on what was written in previous editions and going through my other 5th Ed. books that those with the Gift were not troubling to any being with Magic Might, including magical animals (other mortals with the Gift, stradling Realms, are still affected in most cases).
Could this be clarified?
If one has to possess Inoffensive before Alluring, then I guess the Inoffensive will have to be switched to Magical Being because part of Vares concept from the start was that he is something of a natural "magnet" for Spirits and other magical entities, causing him to be otherworldly even as he has a strong curiosity about the mundane world. He'll probably need a different spell to compensate for the effect on mundane animals, though.
- I will reiterate that "Gain the Wisdom of the Sages" is a perfectly legitimate Ritual as described within the bounds of the book. It is the culmination of Vares' magic, it fits with Alchemical theory and the principles of "perfecting" oneself, and it represents one of his ONLY outlays for Vis in the entire twenty-one years of his career as a Magus. He doesn't even have a Longevity Potion, and the sole Magic Item which he may possess is a Magic Armillary Sphere (which was discussed with Marko, but no specifics were ever imparted). The amount necessary for those two Rituals (plus the two for "Assurance of the Tolerable Manner") are well within the amount that he could use, and represent a fraction of his potential Vis outlay.
I am not buying Great Intelligence. Those two Virtue Points are staying where I assigned them. I've already agreed to taken another MAJOR Flaw (Difficult Longevity Potion) to offset any concerns about "payment" for advancements made during his career.
If you want to know what I really think, it is this: the game designers made a major mistake when they threw out the ability to roll stats. I do not like the purchase method, and I've never used it before 5th Ed. It produces an inferior range of characters, making them more limited in a setting where wild swings should be more common, not less. For Magi, at least, there is some trade-off with the new Rituals, but they are expensive.
- I'll go back and look at the spells when I have time. Truthfully, "Suit of the Jade Warrior" was an exercise in spell design in 5th Ed. and not a vital part of the character. It can be dropped if necessary.
"Call the Stroke of Lightning", however, looks to be completely permissable under the existing rules. Not sure what the problem is with it.
Calling down lightning from a completely cloudless sky on a sunny day is as unnatural as incantation of lighting shooting it from your hand. With taht being the case, but being equally unnatural, your sight range spell should be level 40 to reflect sight instead of voice range for the spell.
THe spell should have a requirement for a storm to be present for it to only qualify as slightly unnatural (and the level you put it as).
Arwan,
Glad you noticed us talking about you! I was getting ready to prod you.
Look, it appears that your primary critic has left us for now. Fixer is a good friend an I highly value his opinion, and if he was still here and insistent, I would continue trying to form a compromise between you. But he is not here, and my greater concern lies with the players who are present and active.
However, there are still some changes I want you to make.
The whole “Inoffensive before Alluring†deal, yeah, that applies. Magic Beings are indeed affected by the Gift, though many of them may have the Minor Virtue of “Unaffected by the Giftâ€. Magic Resistance does nothing to block the Gift, nor did it do so in 4th edition. Parma Magica brought about the Order of Hermes because of its unique property of blunting the negative effects of the Gift. Wizards had magic resistance of one type or another before Parma (though it was not as effective or comprehensive). Apprentices have Magic Resistance due to their Form scores, yet you still need to shield him with your Parma or suffer penalties to your teaching efforts because of your Gift. The reaction of magic beings to the Gift may be different that that of mundanes, but they are still affected. They would have been affected in 4th as well, but the penalties of the Gift were not as emphasized as much as they are in 5th edition.
As for Great Intelligence, take it anyway. Toss the Inoffensive/Alluring thing in there on top of that. I’ll figure out a justification for it later. I am tired of futzing around with this character, and I approved the original design long ago. However, I don’t want you to have the actual spells right now. The primary reason is that my original Lab Text rule for Character Development was that you could say you had a Text for the spell if it came from a published text or was posted on Yair’s spell-wiki (though spells from your apprenticeship may be of original design). The stat boosting spell in question come from True Lineages ((Characteristic) of the Hero’s). I don’t mind the name change, but the Parameters must be the same. This spell has a Range of Touch, yours has a Range of Personal. A Varient must be an original invention rather than a Lab Text, and your Lab Total would come up short in either case.
And wouldn’t you just rather have been a smart guy your whole life?
Like I said, take the Inoffensive/Alluring Virtues anyway. Call them Twilight effects for now. Anyone who wants to howl, let me point out how many months of grueling trial and interrogation has gone on here. Anyway, I still think they seem out of place and don’t really fit your character very well. But that’s okay. One ruling I am making is that any person or being with the Unaffected by the Gift Virtue is also unaffected by any Allure, and the Allure is blocked by Parma Magica as well. This makes sense to me because it is your Gift that is the alluring quality in the first place.
As for your spells, I must confess I haven’t examined them very closely. I was gonna let Fixer do that. I will do that later, or if someone else would like to assist I would much appreciate it.
Strictly speaking, a "bolt from the blue" is much, MUCH less "unnatural" than throwing lightning from one's hands! It was known in the real world, let alone Mythic Europe, and it's classified as "Slightly Unnatural" in my writeup, I believe. That should be enough to compensate for it coming "out of the blue" (again, think about the etymology of the words in our own world's vernacular).