Divine Vis

Anyone know where there is a reference to this stuff, as in how it works mechanically? I assumed it was in ROP: The Divine but I can't find it. Um, maybe I should download the index I wrote!

cj x

The only thing I'm aware of is in the holy magic part of the obok, when they say you extract vis from dominion aura, divine vis, but that no one except holy magi should use this ^^.

I guess it would be blasphemous for less-than-holy magi to use it?

It would not respects commandments "You shall not make for yourself an idol" or "Do not take the name of the Lord in vain".

Why is this? Could you explain your thinking to me?

I think it is more that vis associated with non-magical realms is extrabotchtastic and its use tends to draw the attention of entities from those realms. Most magi tend not to meet the moral standards of divine realm entities and the power of the divine trumps magic. Holy magic is divine realm compatible and only works when used non-sinfully so no extra botch dice and any accidental angels should be friendly.

So, you could not do bad (screw it royally with a botch) when using divine vis for a good act (like curing the blind) in a state of grace?


Free will always allows the possibility of fuck-up. If you are using Holy magic then the fuck-up will be no worse than it would be with normal vis - there may even be a greater possibility of helpful Intervention.

Yep, cheers. I just wondered if it is discussed anywhere. I can't find it in ROP: The Divine, maybe vis aligned with other realms is discussed somewhere in the core rulebook??? I am pretty sure faerie and and infernal vis are detailed in those ROP books.

I'm sure I saw a think about harvesting stuff in high aura empyreal regios as being very high in vis content (such as in Eden - pick an apple, any apple, just chock-full of Creo or Intellego) - its just the flaming sword angelic guardians might object. see p. 14 RoP:D


It's discussed on page 190 of the core rules, but it basically just says that magi avoid using it.

Lets say someone does use it by accident - would you treat it as infernally tainted vis for botch dice etc? Except with botches leading to more biblical or miraculous events?


Even more powerful, but yes, that would be the intent.

While I do understand what you mean, it still sounds very funny for botches to result in miracles. :slight_smile:


Accidental divine intervention... Now how´s that for a paradigm contradiction.

Turning into a pillar of salt or for every firstborn son to die could be considered a miracle . A wrathful one for sure, but a miracle none-the-less.

But ye know, let he who is without sin expend the first pawn an all.


First, I have to thank you for your interest in my brief prose. :slight_smile:

Vis is power made solid (or liquid or any physical form for what it matters) right?

The name of anything is a sympathetic connection to the named thing, the most symbolic one. It is the source of power over that thing and also permit to use its power. God forbids from making wrongful use of His power through His name. The Christ, His very son, is the Verb, His Verb after all. Divine vis is similar: a part of God power incarnated on mundane earth. Thus it should not be used for wrongful deeds, and thus not by not-holy magi.

What is an idol? It is a divine (pagan or not) representation that worshippers confound with the real divine power behind it. What is vis for the average magus? Some raw power he can tap into when he needs so. Does it think about the origin of that power? For a holy magus divine vis is not power, it is a connection to His power and thus does not really depends on the vis object. If He does not want his power used in some way the vis is just a maybe pretty but certainly useless piece of some random material.

Thus holy magi can use divine vis as a way to hope (a theological virtue btw) for His help, whereas not-holy magi (and don't talk of unholy ones...) only see it as a power source, just like mislead idolaters confound idols with God and praise the idol whereas they should praise God.

That's why, one of my players would try to use divine vis, I would take extra care to understand how and why they do so. Fortunately for them they never tried. :smiling_imp:

This is my own agnostic Ars Magica interpretation of the commandments of course. I hope my poor English skill did not make it too obscure.

Shades of byzantine iconoclasm.

Compare to the Virtue Relic, whose protection is passive.

I don't think using divine vis is blaspemous per se, as long as your intentions are pure and the result is not a sin. It's the same as invoking the name of God while smiting your enemies, only more so.