Dominion Aura allied with Magic

Games Discussion Ars Magica
1

Hello,

So I am creating a campaign design in which our magi protangists use the various Creo Terram spells to create their own island 2 miles by 1 mile in the North Sea. Thanks to picking a spot with a random rock that has its own magical spirit the island created will have a magical aura, in fact said Magic aura will actually grow to encompass the whole island. Additional allies of a magical nature will assist in the creation of regionnes as well, though that is not the real question I have.

My question is that this island, small though it may be in the grand scheme of things, will probably draw the attention of the Church due to its growing population. This growing attention might eventually lead to a Saint coming to the island to preach about Christianity. I am generally fine with that except for one thing - if said Saints preach than they will create a Divine aura given time, said aura will push aside the Magic aura that is on the island, which is not something I want.

Soooo, I have a question. Is there any potential ways that I could have a fully recognized form of the Divine on the island that doesn't impact Magic. Are there any Dominion faiths that actually either are fully neutral or even positive, and the same with Saints. Are their any way to have it so the magi can have their cake and eat it to, so to speak, where they have a Magic aura covered island and a functional divine relationship without much trouble or issue. I wouldn't even mind if there was some research, integration, or breakthroughs that needed to be done to allow the Divine to not effect the Magic aura.

Any thoughts or suggestions or help on this would be appreciated.

I own all 5e books of Ars Magica that have come out so if there is some information that I am missing or not remembering but a source exists that would be perfect, I would totally not object to any sort of page reference or look up point.

As I said, thanks, I appreciate any help. :slight_smile:

2

The 4th edition book, Lion of the North: The Loch Leglean Tribunal, had a 'Scottish' flavoured Dominion Aura. It promoted 'calmness', though RoP:D 's tempering mechanics would replace the rules for promoting that personality trait presented in there, though it does mess with 'acclimatization'. Additionally, from page 44...

Of course there was a penalty to casting outside that kind of aura and that edition had different Dominion auras based on faith, which 5th edition did away with. Historically the Scottish Church is converted to Roman (Vatican) rule and this oddly tinted aura would become extinct anyway. But at least there is a precedent. Maybe send out a prayer to the patron saint of Magi to help you out a bit with this? Nerius would certainly be interested in the project.

Edit: Realms of Power: Divine has the Holy Magic virtue, (described on pg 66-69; listed on pg 34), which is an alternative.

3

This is a problem your magi should anticipate and confront. The pedestrian way to handle it is, to set up a chapel on that island and install a priest of their choosing as a capellanus in time. (See Grogs p,100ff The Confessor for an example). Otherwise a bishop or archdeacon might visit after a very few years. Expect a Divine aura in the chapel - but unless you wish to make it into a story, the priest need not drive away the Magic spirits or affect the aura on the rest of the island.

A preaching saint is quite optional. Maybe your magi welcome a follower of St. Nerius (see RoP:TD p.94) like Eloi fromTLatL p.109.

Cheers

4

I don't see why the island needs to be overwhelmed by the Dominion. Even if the saint converts all the people (which need not ever happen; he needen't even visit, a non-saint preacher might do) the Dominion will still only spread to their fields and work-places and so on (based on RoPTD); presumably, much of the island won't fall into those categories. Even in those places, the aura will only be 1, so the island's aura may dominate. The aura will increase in the cities, but whether this will be enough to overwhelm the island's aura depends on details; even if it does, this aura will be restricted to the cities. The aura in chapels and so on will be ever greater, of course, and wprobably will overwhelm the island's; but these are small locales, so this isn't an issue.

5

This. The Dominion doesn't necessarily trump a Magic Aura, unless they are of equal power. You'll run into the same problem with Faerie Auras as faeries start moving into the island, though it's entirely possible for dedicated magi to manage to cull those out on an ongoing basis. If the magi built the island themselves then they can hardly be accused of molesting the fey, given that the fey are trespassing and effectively stealing from the magi when they establish Faerie Auras atop their Magical one.

It's entirely possible to negotiate with both Faerie and Dominion powers in this regard. The fey love negotiation and generally keep to their bargains, and Saints at least can be reasoned with like people (as opposed to angels).

In the end, this is something that should have been accounted for when the island was established. Where do the covenfolk/farmers live, best place for a chapel to limit problems, how to manage faeries (best to require them to swear fealty to the island's owners and set them duties). Because in the end you're going to have the standard spectrum of auras in a community - Dominion in the center, thin band of faerie around that, then magic 'wildlands', assuming no 'mundane' regions.

6

This is really interesting and fun to read information. I really am thankful for all the comments, they help give me a greater perspective on things. It helps me to figure out the set up exactly.

Through preparation the magi who created the island planned ahead so when the island was formed it has a Magic aura of 4 over its entire width and span - that is some 2 miles by 1 miles. This isn't that difficult to invision because the center of the island is that of a natural stone with a magic spirit which through ritual became the genius loci of the island. Furthermore, the various rituals to create the island were pretty high magnitude and so they created Magical tethers and auras and stuff. The idea that I had is that the island has a bay area with a dock and a town designed around it, in a style similar to what the Romans built for colonies. This was chosen as its organized and a pattern that is easier to replicate with magic due to its sameness. The magi themselves live ontop of what looks like a mountain peak on what seems to be a carved caldera, with a magic aura of 7 due to the presence of a transported Standing Stone from some previous project. Between the docks and the mountain lie the farming fields, animal areas, and orchards as well as a much more primordial seeming forest. On the other end is a promontory point which is where I have in my notes some sort of large structure being built, and I am thinking a church or a monastery or something (not sure).

Anyway, I like the potential of the Divine being welcomed as long as it doesn't cause problem for the magi and stuff. So there being a church of some size (probably created by Creo Terram magic since its very much a mastery ability for the mage in charge) on the island makes sense. Looking up Nerius and the elements around that character and tradition and stuff it seems very interesting and quite potentially fun.I do like those recommendations and I looked them up to great fun in reading about them. But yeah if a Divine aura remains around 1 for most places than the Magic Aura of 4 will actually basically ignore it, making the place still a bastion of magical potential and stuff. Which is good for the magi. (My difficulty is not so much with the Christian faith in Ars Magica its that the game to me is about Magic and the practitioners of said nature and so anything that restricts or reduces or makes it potentially wrong is bad in my opinion, which is why I often downplay the Divine in games and stuff; which is why I didn't notice or know or really think about what you guys are saying, I basically dismissed it, lol.)

As a related note - since some of you mention faeries - is there really any good reason to welcome faeries individual and their auras to the island. I think I am going to have the island be entirely under an Aegis of the Hearth effect (its possible, the island was designed to have a Boundary physically designed into it and so while size boosts need to be added it won't be that bad) so it would stop the random faerie from coming in. BUT if there is more great story potentials about having faerie beings I might have the magi second guess their restricted faerie policy and stuff. So I would very much be interested in hearing thoughts on this.

But yeah, I REALLY appreciate the comments. Reading them made me go "oh that sounds cool" and then it got me to open up multiple Ars Magica books I own and cross reference and read chapters again and analyze story seeds and stuff. So I very much had an enjoyable fun day and all. :slight_smile:

7

Hi,

Your saga, your rules, your fun. Not at all suitable for a canonical AM saga, but who needs that?

But canonically.... the Divine takes no prisoners. Of course the Divine won't cause any problems for magi, because the Divine is as close to perfection as can be had on Earth. The Divine will solve problems, such as magi who take too much pride in their insignificant powers. What does a magus have to negotiate with, anyway, to tell God to limit His power, and that of his Holy Church?

And where the Divine inspires people toward the light, the Infernal is sure to follow, to mess things up. Not that it has to, in this case, for it is already present, inspiring magi toward disrespect of God and who know what other deeds that will need to follow, whereby to protect their precious Aura. Trying to manipulate the power of the Divine is a great start indeed!

But heck! If you don't want incompatibility between the Dominion and Hermetic Magic, just change the Realm Interaction Chart and be done with it. That definitely suits some sagas, a bit toward Derinyi or some of Judith Tarr's work.

Anyway,

Ken

8

The rules do also mention the possibility of other auras which are rare, so some kind of hybrid aura is possible with the approval of the storyguide/troupe.
Or find a pagan priest and keep those magic-destroying Christians at bay while defending the old ways....

9

Technically the Aegis is a standard Boundary (100 yards across) which makes it hard to put across an island of that size. IIRC even varying the parameters of an Aegis is a Major Breakthrough; not impossible but it's something of a lifetime's work for a magus to pull that off.

I've always thought this was a great hindrance to Ars Magica. Even looking at Durenmar, it's unlikely that all of that fits in an area 100 yards across. Standard Aegis of the Hearth is big enough for a small castle and that's it.

Standard anti-faerie wards could be set up, but those cause warping to those in the protected area. Enchanted faerie traps could work, assuming you use a level 25 effect (so as to not cause warping to innocent mundanes who might trip it) with high Penetration. Faerie hits trap, loses 25 Might, goes poof. Less viciously, you could just try to customize local stories to get faeries that are predictable and controllable, or at least avoidable (traditional wards that keep them off).

10

Not for nothing but I have never thought that adding + Size to spells and rituals were considered to be new parameters. Its just taking what already exists and making it larger. And I would say that is totally allowed even in such things as Aegis.

One couldn't make an Aegis with (I don't know just go with it) say Group target, cause that is now how it was designed. but tkaing Boundry and adding say +2 Size to make it 10,000 yards is fine for me.

But I seem to be a little higher powered and more open to magical twisting of things. :slight_smile:

Do you think it would be better for the magi to basically 'tame' the faeries in their covenant rather than destroy them or stop them from coming.

I will be honest, while there is a great deal of plenty fun stuff that faeries can do I don't really see a point for them from the perspective of a mage doing his thing. Its so much better to focus on the Magic realm than it is the faerie realm and stuff.

Oooh this is kind of cool. A variant aura that combines Magic and Divine, hmmm - interesting.

Totally could see it has a campaign plot element and saga all on its own. I wonder the best way to go about designing such adventurers and stuff. It could be pretty nifty and fun and stuff.

11

Another option for having a magic/divine aura is to take inspiration from the in-game version of this: Holy Magic. The divine doesn't inherently mess with magic...as long as you hold to a pretty specific ethical path. This would (I would imagine) be a "Laws of Magic" style of universe, a la Harry Dresden: there are some things you simply Don't DO with magic, as they are inherently and objectively wrong. If you do? Well, you're on the express lane to Hell, essentially.

Alternately, this can simply be portrayed in-game as a partial Integration with Holy magic - someone manages to get the "can tap into Divine auras" effect from Holy Magic completely integrated in to Hermetic Magic, and gets that Integration published into the Bonisagus' "Best of the last 7 years" book.

Of course, someone would also probably have to get the "can use some variation of gestures and incantations" effect also integrated, or otherwise no one would want to use this effect; the same is doubly-true for the "you can't use any of your old spells" clause, as well.

Note that I can think of some ways around this, as the integration rules seem to be pretty generous in Integrating the benefit, while dropping most of the restrictions of a given Virtue. I can see the Integration representing an understanding of how the Divine inherently supports the Magic Realm, and the actual integration being a "simple" re-organization of how Hermetic magic is organized mentally by the caster.

The effect being that all Hermetic Spells would remain the same, except they would have an implied "...and through this act, I see the Divine" tagline added to the end. (Thus, in theory, allowing them to call upon Magical Powers, because it's simply a way of acknowledging the Divine made manifest through them.)

The requirement for virtuous behavior in order to avoid the penalty for the Divine aurora would still be there, I would imagine, though. You just wouldn't loose access to the rest of your magic if you decided to go off and eat pork, or have an affair, or not tithe, or what-have-you.

12

You're free to do whatever you wish in your saga, but Range, Duration and Target are called parameters by the Spell Design rules (Core pg 111, "Ranges, Durations, Targets" and Aegis of the Hearth specifically says that you can invent version of different levels but the same parameters, but that varying the parameters requires a breakthrough. It seems the intent was that the Aegis is supposed to not be variable in this fashion; otherwise you'd have Touch/Year/Individual versions that would allow you to slap Magic Resistance on anyone.

So yeah, not changing Aegis is probably Rules By Design and for good reason!

I consider the following things to be likely:
A.) Faeries will settle near humans
B.) Faeries will want to derive vitality from those humans

This isn't something magi can prevent without extreme effort. An Aegis keeps them out of your castle, but that's about it. Keeping them out of your neighborhood means regular sweeps of militant magi (or very well equipped grogs), setting up wards or casting ritual spells - lots of time and resources.

On the other hand, if you can manage to convince the faeries to adopt roles you can tolerate, the local faerie population will only grow so much (as the most powerful faerie's glamour dominates and the rest form its 'court') and it's at least predictable (and at best, controllable and beneficial). Faeries are a resource that covenants can exploit to their benefit, after all.

13

Hi,

Of course, there's always a bigger faerie, or a 'rival' faerie, dragging in a story about challenging the rules and pushing the boundaries.

But that's the cost of doing business!

Anyway,

Ken

14

Faeries at a minimum want attention. Keeping this attention positive to the covenant can be challenging, but trying to ignore them will eventually cause them to act up. This sort of depends on the power level of the covenant; a strong one can act like a liege to nearby faeries, while a weak one will be forced into conflict or submission.

Note that a suitably strong magic spirit on the island might keep the faeries down in a very real way. I'm fairly certain the magical Presence power and the faerie Glamour would be at odds (highest Might wins), so it would take a long time and a lot of mortal attention for a faerie to become powerful enough to gain a real foothold.

15

Reminder: Dominion Auras only spread as far as the sound of the church bells. Adjust your island to account for this.

16

and your church bells... different clappers, geography, etc bells can typically be heard at ranges from 1.25 Miles to 10 miles.

17

Hi,

I see faeries more like weeds or mold, which can grow wherever there is room for a good story. This is much more likely in a Faerie Aura, but can happen even in the teeth of a large countervailing Aura.

Anyway,

Ken

18

I don't see how a Church can overwhelm an island with a Magic Aura of 4. Here's the relevant quotes from pages 10 and 11 of ROP:TD:

" As a rule of thumb, the Dominion will extend from the altar, from where the salat is being chanted, or from the Torah scrolls, to as far as the church’s bells, the call to prayer, or the recitation of the Torah can be heard —until it encounters another, stronger aura or reaches the edge of the community. Dominion power within a given area will vary. Inside a small church, for example, it has its strongest aura rating of 5 at the altar. This will decrease to 4 throughout the church, extending to the threshold of the church building, with the land and cemetery surrounding the church having a Dominion aura of 3."
-and-
"Due to the purpose and nature of the Dominion, when it comes to influence in an area with another realm’s aura of equal strength, the Dominion will trump the opposing aura; a more-powerful aura will still overwhelm the Dominion, however."

So, assuming your island has the standard rural parish church, you'll find the interior of the Church to have a Dominion aura of 4 (5 in the nave), but the rest of the island will have a Magic aura of 4 as soon as you step out the door. The Dominion may spread over the island when it is temporarily boosted on Holy Days, but the Magic aura will soon reassert itself.

19

Ooooh interesting point. One that actually has some potential for fun and examination. There are two auras in the area, the dominant Magic one and the normally overwhelmed Dominion one which means there is the potential for personal research and discovery of how Auras interact and stuff. Which could in time provide some breakthroughs on aura interaction and ability. Plus, there is always the potential story plot of the effects of the High Holy days on the island and the magical workings and stuff. The magic doesn't get snuffed out but it could be effected in interesting story and plot potential ways. Which is always a plus and could be fun, rather than annoying.

Ovarwa,

I don't exactly remember where I saw it but something I once read gave me the idea of a covenant using a Faerie story to represent the dangers of acting out or falling to use one's knoweldge or power responsibly. Say in a school environment there could be a Faerie which tells the story of temptation and the potential fall if one isn't using the power rightly. Since its a faerie the temptation isn't real, but so the soul is unaffected, but it could eaisly be used by the teachers to educate the students on proper behavior. The faerie gets to enjoy telling his stories once again for every new crop of students as long as he follows certain 'rules' that he and the teachers established.

Faeries and the stories like this interest me, since its clearly the Magi (and Magic) which is dominant in the interaction.

KevinSchultz,

The integration with Holy Magic so that the Dominion doesn't effect Magic is interesting. I like the one idea in the one book (I think Legend of Hermes) where the integration allows for one's Realm Lore rating to provide a bonus to ignore the rating of particular Aura when it comes to negative effects. Which means if one has Divine Lore 4 or 5 than the Divine Aura has no bad effects. What also intrigues me on this is having Infernal Lore 4/5 basically means the mage will be able to resist (basically immune) to the Infernal ability to taint things. Which I am totally fine with as I dislike the Infernal and want Magic to trump it in pretty much all ways that count thematically.

But yeah studying Holy Magic and maybe even the whole interaction between the Divine and Magic auras on the iisland could easily provide methods of getting points towards the integration breakthrough.

20

What I meant was that a powerful Magic spirit with the Presence power could effectively prevent a Faerie Aura from springing up at all. It can't prevent faeries from moving in, but it might prevent them from setting up shop (spreading their Glamour).