Doorway Trigger/Range Question

Games Discussion Ars Magica
1

Hi,
A maga character I am playing has been thinking about protecting her sanctum from some kleptomaniac covenant folk she doesn't trust. I read that guarding one's sanctum with spells is not uncommon. So I thought it might be easy to enchant the doorway with a spell. Suppose (and this is hypothetical, I am not actually going to go this route) that she wanted to make the doorway into a charged item =, with some Rego Corpus spells that targeted anyone who walked through it and teleported them outside (at the 2nd floor level, or maybe it's the 3rd, i don't remember). Yeah this could be lethal but it's her sanctum and she thinks it's within her rights.

Anyway, I am wondering a few things:

  1. Would "being walked through" be okay as a normal trigger for an enchanted doorway? Please don't tell me it needs a linked trigger with an intelligo corpus spell to detect people.
  2. What range is necessary to hit the trespasser with a spell? Touch? But then, will it still hit the guy if he jumps through?

I have other questions too but have to leave... I'll be back soon...

2

Yes, unless you have an incredibly big doorway, touch shouild be enough. Yes, I see no problem with your ReCo teleport spell.

It is a nice one, in fact.

Cheers,

Xavi

3

You "think"? Know it. The Sanctum is sacred - crossing the threshhold is "all bets off" and an open season on whoever walks thru.

And so a doorway is a perfect first line of defense (even if that "defense" is fairly offensive.) :wink:

Stop me if you've heard this before, but it's entirely up to the SG/Troupe.

I would say that most items, being "walked by" would not count - altho' approaching to within a certain range might - magical landmines of one sort or another.

However, the nature of a doorway is that walking thru it is how one usually interacts with it - it ~is~ the nature of the thing, so I (killer GM that I am) would support it 100%.

Again, open to interpretation, but as above I would rule that a doorway is the entryway, not just the frame around the entryway, and so "Touch" includes the plane formed by that entrance. One does not have to touch the doorframe or sill to "touch" the doorway.

And if you're going to do it, do it right - drop them high, and preferably onto something sharp or into something deep. Being able to ~know~ who did it is important. In the wall across from the door, set up some decorative iron torch sconces (aka barbed spikes), and hurl them against those. (If they're other magi, make sure you take Penetration into account. Small spells with high penetration are preferable. Mundane ispikes do not need to penetrate - they're just there to cushion the landing.)

I'd also plan on a backup defense, for 2 reasons - 1), it's a backup in case the first one fails, somehow. (+1 size intruder, maybe?) 2) At some point, those "charges" might wear out - it would be nice to have some security while re-creating that defense.

Good luck!

4

LOL, CH, you've got some interesting ideas. Well, I said "think" because I couldn't find much on the rules of sanctity of a mages sanctum, and what I did find (in the 5th edition core book, under "help in the laboratory") was that a mage can "exact any toll" on other intruding magi. I wasn't sure if this applied to mundane servants. Also, I don't really want to kill intruders, just injure them and/or scare the bejeezus out of them.

I opted for no penetration because I'm a little short on lab total. Also, I don't want to accidentally trigger the mechanism myself. It is, after all, the door to my sanctum and I go through it a lot. I don't know exactly how that will work if I have to use the doorway often in the season I am enchanting it.

5

The enchantment doesn't work until it's finished.

(I rationalize it that it has to do with the solstices/equinoxes, that there's something "magical" about those times to finish a project. It's why you can't start a project mid-season, work 3 months, and finish middle of next season - just doesn't work that way.)

Scrounge up all the penetration you can muster, even just a little, for those annoying semi-supernatural critters with low Might, or someone with a cheesy MR amulet or something.

Look into Shape/Material bonuses - there's a .pdf floating around with (most?) all from the various canon books combined. (Try the Atlas site, AM downloads?)

Anyone entering another magus' sanctum loses all rights - to life, to property, to the expectation of the opportunity to explain themselves.

You can define the trigger so your mage can work around it (or anyone else who learns that trick), or add +3 and limit him from the "list", or use magic to either suppress the effect or alter your mage while passing thru - if it blasts anyone without a particular very simple Mag 3 effect, that's easy to spont, and possibly invent some season if you have extra lab total (plan ahead.)

Think about potential guests, collaborators, apprentices, lab assistants, familiars, and the cleaning staff too.

(But I'd work on a door that is hard to open (or non-existent without magic?), rather than have an open door that one must try to defend. It's the low-hanging fruit that gets picked. Let them go steal from some other lab.)

btw - is this mundane, supernatural, or Magi intrusion we're talking about?

6

Ok.

I'm only worried about mundane intrusion. That's the most important reason I didn't put penetration in. I trust the other magi in the covenant not to enter it, as much as anyone would who hasn't protected their sanctum at all. I want to be able to personally let some people (cleaning staff, assistants, etc.) through the doorway by extending my PM to cover them. But I guess 1 or 2 leftover points could be spent on penetration anyway.

With a MT of 4, the best total bonus I can get from shapes and materials is +4, and with the doorway this is already met, so nothing else will help.

I originally wanted to go with charges because I was stingy and didn't want to spend any vis. I figured, after the device goes off a few times, and the bodies start piling up, people will stop trying to get in, assuming anyone even tried in the first place.

But here's what I would go with if I wanted to make it a Lesser Enchanted item. My lab total, without experimenting, is only 31, so I expect to include an expiration date.
Level 25 effect:
ReCo 20 (Base 15, +1 Touch), triggers whenever walked through, targeting the person walking through; +4 to be used up to 12 times/day (more than enough), +1 for 2 penetration.
The excess is 6, and I can multiply this by 5 to make it 30, and the device will only last 7 years (which is enough for me).

Then again, using charges, this reduces to a level 21 effect, and my excess is 10 so with the same multiplier I can get 10 charges. With no vis cost. Did I miss anything?

7

If he spends a season and learns a "similar" spell, like Wizard's Leap or some other RegoCorpus teleport (always handy)(check with your SG first), he can add the magnitude of the spell to the Lab Total (p 98, col iii top), and with the Expiry multiplier that's big.

re Penetration, there is another category to worry about - critters like the fae, who have Might and probably MR, but are neither mundane nor Hermetically "honorable". Just tossing that out as food for thought.

And, again, standard Corpus is a size +1 body - if the local thieves' den has a truly gigantic lout, the spell will still get triggered, but won't even tickle 'em.

But yeah, looks like how I might build it - nice work.

8

Right there with ya on the similar spell, she is going to learn wizard's leap first -- but i've already factored that in. Also, she figures that a magical creature probably wouldn't even want to get into her sanctum, and even if it did, it could probably find a way to bypass the door. It might not be Corpus in form either.

She's getting a large amount of gold, and wants to keep it in her sanctum, but will be gone for two seasons. She wants to keep it safe from ungifted folk who might try to sneak in while she's gone and no one's looking. She has an understanding with the other magi in the covenant, and she assumes that magical creatures (of which there aren't any who just "hang out" around the covenant) aren't interested in gold, or anything else in her sanctum. We do have a +1 size guy, but i'm not worried since he has -5 intelligence, and plus i don't even know if he could fit through the door. I am only considering covenfolk really because it's not easy to sneak in and guests would probably be under the watch of the magi.

Come to think of it I will also give the effect a cosmetic imaginem effect so that when the target disappears, his body appears to disintegrate first, and/or a splatter of blood is left behind. Just so his buddies won't be too eager to follow him to "wherever he's gone".

9

Its more than cosmetic... its a true CrIm ^^

10

Only that?

Then just cast a ReCo spell at the door. Make it penetreation-less so it does not affect you and make it year duration. People cannot touch the door :slight_smile: Should cost you a pair of pawns of vis. A Rego mentem ior perdo mentem effect to make people not want to open the chest or to make them indifferent towards richness could work as well. I am quite surprised you are wasting vis in protecting only gold. Magi can create a full chest of the bugger simply by a terram spell. Not cheap, but it is not a problm most of tghe time.

Or give it to the local Templars or jews for investment. Then you go around and collect the profits somewhere else when you need them. The banking system was not very well developed but was there.

or lock your door. :wink: Can be done wioth a key or a MuTe or CrTe (conjure a huge rock) or make thedoor unmovable ReTe.

Cheers.,

Xavi

11

Why cast a vis costing spell (and if Ritual yearduration, Xavi... need at least 4 pawns :wink:) ?

Just take some PeTe to do a circle behind the door. Then, circle spell of ReCo ... no vis, almost permanent effect.

12

Xavi wrote:

If you're talking about enchanting the door with a ward, that's not a bad idea. ReCo 10 (personal, sun, ind.) would probably do this, with +4 extra to trigger at both sunrise & sunset. Smaller vis cost too! Assuming this will ward the doorway as well as the frame, though.

Just "throwing a spell at it" would require a spell of level 25 if you wanted year duration, a spell that I would need to invent, and then have to spend 5 vis to cast, so that doesn't seem as efficient. (If you mean that the door is enchanted to affect itself, then okay then I can use the formula in the last paragraph.)

Btw, why would you make permanent gold (and spend lots of vis doing so) if you value vis more than gold?

ExarKun, I see the point of the circle spell, but how is it almost permanent? Will the Ring duration last until someone with enough resistance steps into the circle?

13

Depending how you (mis)read the Ring/Circle rules, this won't work at all.

A "waiting effect" won't work, as the Target has to be within the circle when cast. Or, the moment the "target" crosses the circle, it has been broken. This might not happen with all rings and their ongoing effects (again, depending how you read the RAW), but with regards to the Target it's fairly clear. Can't have it both ways, to not have the Target present, and not have the circle "broken" when they cross it - not by the RAW.

At absolute best, and by stretching the RAW, you get 1 shot out of such a spell, as it casts as its being broken. Which would allow you to cast infinite tiny circles for free, and be the munchkin magical landmine king. :unamused: ("Waiting Ward" is there for a reason.)

Target:circle and Duration:Ring are there to affect targets that are inside the circle when the spell is cast - not targets outside the circle when they cross to inside it. (That's how circles work in the genre, and oddly enough, AM is not creating some new concept here.)

4 MTh + 2(?) Int + 3(?)Aura + 0(?) Lab Quality + 0(?) misc + 4 S/M + 4 Sim spell = +17, conservatively.
That means Tech & Form average to 7 each. Maybe spend a season in the Library first? Just a thought... :wink:

Is this in the RAW? Where did you find this? A minor breakthrough, perhaps. Speak to us more of this "key" and the Technique of Locko... 8)

But, yes - it sounds like simply sealing your lab while you're gone is not a bad plan. Nothing like 20 tons of granite to discourage snooping...

14

Well maybe iMs whe misread the circle rule :smiley:

15

(You wouldn't be the first. Go over it again, and make a distinction between a "Ring" (a physical or drawn object) and a Circle (which is a conceptual boundary, a curved line in space defining an area).

But there are almost as many readings and interpretations (and HouseRules) as Player's, so don't feel alone.)
:wink:

16

Aha, so you cleverly deduced my technique and form levels, you devil. Actually the aura is 5 and the similar spell bonus is 3, but true, she isn't exactly a Rego Corpus specialist, having 5 & 8 respectively. Oh, she's been trying to raise them recently, but I'm in a really slow-moving saga where a dozen story events happen a year and things come up... and now she's on a deadline since she has to leave in a certain amount of time.

17

How's her Terram and Muto? Could she simply lug in some large boulders, turn them to clay for diameter, mold them to fit, and seal up the doorway?

(This possibly in addition to the other, natch.)