Ok I added a few planned Wolf and Bear traits. There are some flaws that I want to take because they fit the natures - can those be part of an ordeal to add to the inner heartbeast? Or do such ordeal flaws need to affect the human form?
Other than that, some stat increases and immunities (also listed).
The other thing is, he wants to get some of the Inner House Mysteries, those are also listed on the wiki.
Not expecting everything, but giving you the list of what I want.
Starting with the easiest- sensory magic will require mostly lab time to create the item indicated. There are wells preserved by the Ilfetu to cast them into, this will take a few days from a season.
Deed of Honor- finding an ancestor site will require a season of exploration of an area where you must roll per+area lore for the season with a target number of 18 to locate a site- this is an exception to standard rules which have either adventure or experience in that each season of exploration allows 7xp in area lore for the region being explored. This is a stress die with a single botch die, but a botch indicates you determine that there are no ancestor sites in that area and must chose a new area to search. Claiming a site also requires a season. This also requires the time of a high level mystagogue for initiation, which requires a roll against clan lore+communication of 12 to locate an appropriate mystagogue available in a given season or the initiation must be postponed.
will address the heartbeast initiations later...
I also want to point out that part of using this narrative approach is supposed to be for you to prioritize what your character is pursuing, not to simply have a "dump file" where you try and do everything at once.
additionally I have repeatedly asked you to not include projected seasons on the wiki before I review them.
We just had this same conversation a handful of posts ago... and here you are once again posting "final" results that are not approved.
I haven't posted anything final. I'm just keeping track of my plans on the wiki page. If it offends you I will take it down and keep on a word doc on my system.
that would be better, and lets do the initiations in order here... right now it seems to me like the wiki page is a mish mash of where we have gotten to and where you want to be going.
I cleaned up the Wiki.
The way I've figured the enchantment for the Sensory Magic Initiation is:
Silver Statue of Heartbeast - Item level 19: Level 15 Effect: InIm base 5; Per/Sun (+2)/Ind – Item has all five senses – 2 uses per day(+1), Environmental Trigger (+3)
Do you agree? Is there a lab text?
(Doesn't have to be silver, of course, but it's +2 for Intellego. I figure the initiate can make his heartbeast from clay and it gets cast in silver.)
Other question - for the searching for ancestor site - unless there's a reason he can't, he'd try to search from the air in inner heartbeast form, is that ok?
I agree, there are no lab texts for this however (if there were they would be specific to the heartbeast in question, so you would still be out of luck)
He can search from the air, but not 100%, and it will not decrease the time it takes to search or give a bonus, just make it less strenuous- a lot of the time is spent poking around on the ground and looking for signs of an ancestor site that require close investigation.
Understood re: searching from the air. But ok to use Heartbeast stats to roll?
that is fine
I am going to have to hold off on Sensory Magic, it will take a significant amount of investment to get to where making that item is not a huge undertaking.
As for the Deed of Honor, thinking about that, I realize that it makes sense as the reason he came to the Levant - to search for ancestor sites - so I will leave that for once the game starts as well.
Hope that's not annoying
Not in the least- do you want to engage in more regular study next or in improving your heartbeast, and if the latter then what improvement would you seek next. As detailed in the section on refinement there are a lot of variations that can be applied an additional initiation factors which may need to be employed, and it is also something were success in a particular attempt may not be assured...
I will advance him a few more years, then would like to do some heartbeast improvements.
My plan is that his Bjornaer Lore will be high enough that the "embryonic script" (which is a season spent purifying, and the consumption of vis) is enough for him to get to a 24/27 (depending on resonant bonus), which covers a significant portion of the improvements I'd like to do without adding anything. In fact, I'd like to ask if I can remove the vis requirement from the easier ones; as it only adds a +1, but takes a significant amount of vis. (this is on HH:MC 32)
For some of the higher ease factor things, I was wondering if ordeal flaws can be taken that effect the heartbeast only. I was thinking about the personality flaws that embody aspects of the other natures; such as Greedy (minor) and Reclusive for the Melancholic (from Bear) and Compulsion (killing) for the Sanguine (from Wolf). Though Compulsion (Killing) seems a bit extreme, but it's there on Wolf; I'm not sure how strong the compulsion is meant to be. Either way, it seems more interesting for the inner heartbeast to have draconic personality traits more strongly than when he's not in the form, but if they should be in all forms, I get that too.
In terms of what I wanted to actually add; I've finally gotten it through my thick skull that you don't like lists, but in general there are a bunch I want to do - so how should I present that to you?
first, the vis cost is integral to the initiation, in which you are altering a (post twilight) magical being.
also the first time you initiate each given embryonic improvement you will have a +3 to your target number (this will still likely be faster than finding an existing mystagogue with those virtues and a equally high initiation potential)
as for ordeals, these will need to affect the whole character, as per standard rules, not just the heartbeast. Also in choosing the additional script elements you are utilizing the modifying the script rules from the Mysteries, which is based on int + cult lore.
+3 for the first time initiating each category per the headings in the book (Changing Size/Increasing Characteristic Scores/Acquiring Qualities/Acquiring Virtues/Acquiring Powers)?
So for instance, changing size, which is EF 18 +3 for each additional time you do it; would actually be 21 the first time because that type of improvement hadn't been initiated before, then the second time it wouldn't have the extra +3 but would have the +3 from having been done once already; so the progression is 21/21/24/27 instead of 18/21/24/27.
Re changes, the annual limit of vis will limit the number of improvements per year, right? and It can't be saved up to do zero one year and four the next. (the price will work out to 2 per year max, at the lower end.)
those points are all correct.
Ok.
There are no other inner mysteries he's pursuing.
I would like to disperse advancement and heartbeast improvements, basically for the rest of the post-gauntlet advancement. Stat increases and size increases would be the most numerous, do you want to do those one by one? For the most part they won't go above 24/27.
The ones that are less standard would be a couple of qualities from wolf and a couple from bear. Do you want to do those one-by-one?
I was planning on a couple of more major ones, that might require ordeals - virtues drawn from the list in HH:MC. The first would be Greater Immunity: Fire. Do I get a trailing bonus from the Magic Addiction Major Ordeal that would apply to Heartbeast Improvements?
You do get the trailing ordeal, and without modification to the script being required for it since it is simply pre-existing. Lets do the modifications in groups of three if you are not modifying the script, one at a time where you are.
Advanced three years to 35, bought LR with one years' vis allowance (used Rhine price). Waiting for your ok before rolling aging.
First improvement (the following year) will be Greater Immunity: Fire. Embryonic script 7, Presence 3, Skill 9+2 (including Initiations spec). So total 21, +9 from previous ordeal, gets to 30 for Major Virtue. So will modify the script to add minor ordeal. (Some kind of draconic personality trait, I was thinking - perhaps Avaricious? but up to you)
advancements approved- you can choose the ordeal, both in terms of mechanics (what flaw it gives) and description (how it is achieved) and then I will assign resonance. You do need to roll stress die+ int+ cult lore with a target number of 9 (so don't botch). Also keep in mind that adding a minor ordeal to this script means your next script will get a +3 bonus from prior ordeal rather than +6.
I'm also revisiting my point earlier about the +3 for the first initiation- it looks like, on further examination, this +3 is already included in the levels presented in the book, so please ignore that requirement for initiations- in which case you can make this initiation without adding an ordeal...
With that revision, he won't add the minor ordeal.
On TMRE 14 it says that only the largest trailing bonus stacks. So if he added a minor ordeal, it wouldn't add a trailing bonus but the major one still would. (Unless you're changing that.) Doesn't matter anymore because he's not adding it but just to get the rules clear.
No rolls required so moving on.
The next would be qualities, which are EF 15 and don't have increasing EF's; so presenting a group of three:
Hardy (Melancholic)
Imposing Appearance (Melancholic)
Long-Winded (Choleric)