Dream Laboratory

Would it be possible to build and use a laboratory inside the magus' own dreamscape? I had the idea when I read the Laboratory flaw Mental Construct in Covenants. Using Dream Magic and Greater Dream Grimoire, would this be possible.
The description of the flaw says that without strong magic, enchanting items, among other things, would not be possible. But in the Greater Dream Grimoire (from Mysteries), objects can be found within dreams and taken out, making them solid. Also, the magus can send solid objects into his own dreamscape using some of these spells.
Also, how would the other virtues and flaws be used if the lab is a mental construct? Would the virtue Natural Surroundings, for example, count if the magus' dream laboratory is in a dreamscape forest?

I realize I'm stretching the boundries here, but isn't that what magic is all about? :slight_smile: The dream mystery cult in Mysteries even have a dream palace, and I would think they have some laboratories in there too :slight_smile:

Any thoughts? :slight_smile:


There was a great hook in an old edition (3rd?), that had the ghosts of several magi, who had passed on to final twilight*, unknowingly trapped in a magical jar. Inside that jar, there was the illusory construct of a covenant, and the magi had (long previous to the PC's rediscovering them) been doing "labwork" for some living mage. (And I may well have this wrong- feel free to correct)

(*Twilight/Warping worked somewhat differently back then.)

Now, the hook was, that at some point, the ghosts might realize the deception, and then want to get out... and given the time they had, and the fact that they were all fairly senior and experienced, and had nothing better to do...

So, in "history", there is some precedent for this type of thing, but I'd say that, given 5th ed, it might well take a breakthrough. And LOTS of forethought by the Storyguide and/or Troupe, re game balance, and the fallout from such a decision.

But on the surface, great idea!

I'd have to reread the rules, but one of my players Dave Curtin came up with precisely this idea, and it was what inspired me to write the Dream Witches. He wanted to transfer his physical lab to dream to make an "astral temple",and old ritual magic idea where one no longer needs the physical props etc. If you allow this path, and we never had a chance to explore it in play, then I suggest not allowing Dream vis to be used in experimentation, and having some kind of portal from the former earthly site, where people sometimes randomly stray in there in their dreams --and make sure the passage of time in the dream lab remains the same as in the real world, to prevent munchkinism. If I have a chance I'll reread TMRE later and see what the rules might allow...

cj x

I have no idea if this would work, but as a tribute to my mate Dave, a story idea...

In 1204 Constantinople falls to the Latin armies of the Crusades. The Franks carry out a vast devastation, and in the defence one magi Metrodorus of Thebes was prominent, sending hideous dreams to wrack the conscience fo the invaders, and stir up enmity between them and the Byzantine Prince they supported. When the city fell he swore a terrible oath of revenge.

in 1206 the Tribunal declared him outcast from the Order: for two years he had wreaked terrible magical vengeance upon the mundane families of the Lords who had destroyed his city, and brought so much pain and suffering. He was marched by Order of the Quaesitores - yet as no one knew his location, he remains at large, a threat to the Order to this day.

Cut to a hilltop in Normandy, where stood a small manor, where the beautiful daughter of one of the knights involved in the Crusade lies in an enchanted sleep. The manor is almost forgotten now - the mundane inhabitants of the region woke up one morning, and somehow forgot that it had ever stood. It had been a ruin since it was burned in the fighting between the Angevins and Capetians in the days of King Richard - who would go to this haunted spot anyway?

The Crusader and his wife have not forgotten, but he lies dead in Constantinople, and his wife is sick unto death, having never remarried. The heiress to the estates, a fine prize si lost - and many now compete for the title and lands. All that is known in that one night in 1208 she mounted a horse and left - yet as if one sleep walking. In the morning news of her fathers death arrived - some say some omen of thsi catastrophe led her to flee the many suitors who would surely await her, but others fear she is ensorcelled. Whatever the cause, her mothers heart was broken by the loss of husband, son (killed in a jousting accident) and daughter, and she has refused any marriage herself. Her liege is away in Constantinople - he will intervene on his return, but bad dreams hhaunt him everytime he turns his thoughts homeward

She lives on, still in deep, enchanted sleep. A faerie indebted to Metrodorus has cursed her, with a "condition until" spell, which requires a brave lover to awaken her. The tangled briars and sentient woods guard her bower, and strange mishapen faerie beasts lurk in the woods around her prison. A familiar enough fairy story.

Yet deep within her dreams lives Meterodorus. He had her placed here, set up the magical guardians, and physically entering her dream he waits in her sleep, enjoying the soft pastures and noble city of her youthful innocence, protected by the dream knights she often dwells upon. In her sleep he has found haven, and here in her dream he has built a tower, and there within a laboratory, and rarely now does he enter the real world to fight on. Why bother, when here he can work uninterrupted, and enjoy the youth he had long forgotten through the world of her fancies?

Occasionally he enters the dreams of those she loves, and toys with them, or calls others to the manor by dream sendings. On arrival they meet a sudden death - and he takes whatever he needed from their bodies. Carters with mundane good, apprentices charged with collecting vis, scholars carrying books, their bones all lay in the oubliette of the ruined manor.

And if she wakes? Then his haven is dispelled, his work undone, and he will reappear, and seek vengeance on those who brought his curse to an end...

Dunno, just a silly idea. Anyone else?

cj x


Beyond this introductory phrase, I can only say 2 things...

I Like. :slight_smile:


I like it :slight_smile: , but I prefer to have the girl in a place where competing people over the lands (the other heirs, like cousins et al) would not stumble over the ruined keep so easily. If there are battles around the area for the lands (and there will be once the mother of the girl dies) the manor/keep is bound to have plenty of visits by warrior parties. Placing her in a less obvious position (middle of a forest?) would be better IMO.

But then is not sleeping beauty anymore :wink:

I also agreew with the berkllist (MdV comment on the magus having an active hand manipulating people through their dreams, so that he leaves clues around. Makes for a more track-able enemy, and that in the long run is a good thing for troupe development



So perhaps the answer to the last post would be to suggest that this wizard, in his acts of vengeance managed to perform a long lost ritual using an ancient artifact of great power. This banished the actual ruined keep to a regio superimposed upon the same location and only accessible by finding out the details of this ritual and securing the artifact (and of course performing the related entry process - say, only on a particularly auspicious night of the year, at a certain point in the ruins by walking X number of times in a circle whilst uttering the princess's name with true affection, etc.)

Gives characters some objectives to quest for, things to learn and rituals to perform. That should keep them busy for quite some time.

IMO that also faithfully follows the fairy tale model.

Yes, and it is REALLY cool. :smiley: I like it!


That's an excellent idea. I want to use that one in my campaign, I think :slight_smile:


Happy to have inspired you! :slight_smile: