Elementalist Summoner

Hello all

From reading an old old thread on these boards while developing an elementalist summoner, I've found a query.

The character has elemental magic which allows the character greater flexibility with elemental requisites.

I quote
"there is no disadvantage to adding elemental form requisites to any elemental spell. If an aquam, auram, ignem or terram spell has another element as a requisite, you may ignore the requisite. You must still use the primary art, even if the requisite is higher"

Now my query. If a magus with elemental magic invented a version of coerce the spirit of fire (usually ReIg20) but added requisites for the other elemental forms to make Coerce the Elemental Spirit ReIg(Aq,Au,Te) would they still have to add on three magnitudes for the extra requisites? Would it still be level 20 or level 35?

What would happen if they then passed on the lab text to a non-elementalist? Could they cast it still?

Or would the spell include the reqs as magnitude bumps to make a lvl 35 spell that always rolled ReIg and ignored the scores for their other elemental forms but could bind an elemental of any of the four arts?

My understanding the requisite is still there and so it still part of the spell level. But you get to ignore it, so you don't have to cast using a lower Art. But I could be totally wrong there, too.

The book isn't 100% clear, but from the bit saying

"there is no disadvantage in adding elemental Form requisites to any elemental spell."

I'd infer that the requisites are free and the spell level is unchanged.

Elemental Magic seems a bit weak to me, so I'm inclined to go with the interpretation that makes it stronger. Wouldn't let non-elementalists learn a spell invented this way though.

I believe you are streching the purpose of requisit in a spell with this application.
Usually a requisit a a "functionality" beyond the initial effect or is required becomes several forms are involve at once.
Exemple 1) Cristal Dart: Muto to make the dart, Rego to make it fly
Exemple 2) Circe's Curse: Corpus and Animalem since the spell turns a man into a pig.

With the design you are proposing, you are trying to make a multipurpose spell, and Hermetic magic is quite rigid. A spell can only do one thing.
This spell will allow to do one thing OR something else OR something else OR something (the something else being affect another form). I believe this goes beyond the specificity of Formulaic magic.

It has been pointed several time that Elemental magic is a bit weak as a major virtue. I tried it for one character and I agree, it does not pull it weight. Various modifications were proposed, and these are my two favorite ones, that I used combined:

There is still need to invent a spell for each Form specific effect, but you only have one Art.
Exemple: You need to invent separately Pilum of Fire and Torrent of Water.


I'm not sure that I agree that the spell is doing other things. Rather it seems that the spell is essentially "Coerce an Elemental spirit". It does one thing, coerces elemental spirits. That it requires three requisites does make it do anything extra as a spell, only widens the scope of its target. This is essentially the same as adding requisites to a teleport spell. You aren't doing other things (teleporting armour, teleporting clothes, teleporting wizards staff) you are simply widening your target.

I like the idea of replacing the four arts with one and it seems much more in keeping with what the virtue is supposed to do.

I think for now, i'll rule for this instance that the proposed coerce spell would be level 35 with all three reqs. But when casting, the elementalist would use the primary art only. Very useful if you have say, very high ignem and fairly low aquam, auram and terram as you'll be able to bind spirits from those elements as if they were fire spirits.

I too am agreed that elementalist does not, as written currently offer enough bang for its buck. Outside of narrow spells like this one, the +3 xp when studdying an elemental art is arguably worse than free study or book learner which only apply to one method of learning, but also apply to the techniques too which the elementalist is also going to want to learn.

In fact, I think a more powerful elementalist could be made using different virtues than elementalist. the 3 points of virtue could be better spent elsewhere and that major hermetic virtue used on a major focus or major potent magic instead.