Enchanting items queries

Two queries regarding enchanting items.

  1. can you build an item designed to mess up a particular entity by including arcane connections in its construction (via sympathetic magic). i.e. a charged wand of PeCo death magic, the tip of the wand being the targets severed finger, lost in a previous battle. I can see this being powerful but limited. If this doesn't seem viable by the rules could it make a good original research project?

  2. I've been having trouble thinking up effects to go into my characters quarterstaff talisman. It can already do mighty fling of the menancing knight (but upped to target group). What other effects would benefit from being in an item as opposed to being created as a spell? The character is a necromancer, the staff is made of bone. I'm drawing a blank here. Every effect i think of seems to be more practical as a spell.

"Any" effect that can be put into a spell can be put into an item/wand. So, since sympathetic connections can be put into a spell, yes.

As for the second question(s)... (I'll assume the bones in the staff are "human")... first "why?"...o You can make the device hold concentration. This is handy for, say, a "Hold Person" type spell, which bones would lend themselves to easily. Other effects are possible.

o Environmental Triggers- the staff could work "automatically", if a trigger could be worked in there. Notify you of changes in Aura (Divine/Infernal Auras?), or when sunrise approached, etc. Perhaps casting a protective ward against spirits every night, regardless of your necromancer's mental state, whatever.

o Reach- if you can think of some spell with a range of "reach", but you'd rather not actually touch the target with your hand, but with your staff, here's your opportunity.

o Silent, No Gestures, etc - Depending what your "trigger" is, the usual headaches of those limitations (see p. 83) are not a consideration. That includes when restrained, or silenced. (I can think of more than one effect that a mage might want to cast silently and/or still, or when that first unfriendly hand grapples them.)

o No Fatigue, ever- Having a spell that you can cast infinitely without any chance of fatigue can be a lifesaver, especially in negative Aura areas (cities, graveyards, et al), or during longer combats. Having one or two reliable, versatile damage spells in an item makes a tired mage a reliable combat element, instead of a scared rabbit.

o Form/Effect Bonus. Getting a small benefit to creating the spell/instilling the effect allows for creating a larger final product, or the same effect faster. While some effects as spells are handier, for all the above reasons some are not.
Now, "what?"...

Bodily pain, control, breaking, knowledge of health (who's alive, who's dead, who's hurt), protective/defensive spells cast on the necromancer himself, knowledge of bones underground, knowledge of the past history of bones, destruction of corpses ("Corpse to Dust" is very handy for cleanup of certain indiscretions and labwork), connections with spirits (anything that once had such bones), etc etc.

That's all that jumps immediately to mind, sorry.

I think the two big ones in the list the Cuchulainshound provided are triggered activation and maintaining concentration.

an intellego corpus spell that detects when A human body near you is taking a swing at you acting as a linked trigger to a rego corpus effect that throws that body 30 paces away from you would be the sort of trick that your necromancer could put into his staff and couldn't pull off with spells.

Something like an invisibility spell with item maintains concentration, a silent triggering action, and 3 activations per day would be quite handy. It would be better than a spell because you could turn it on and off at you whim.

Don't forget...Rituals can't be put in there...(barring certain Mysteries)

But otherwise...what he said... :slight_smile:

Not quite so. Spells that are rituals only because they exceed lvl 50 can be put into items, meaning you can indeed have the staff of obliterate city.

Sweet. Wands of slaying coming right up.

I'm liking the idea of a good meaty attack spell in the wand, infinite uses so that i can just blast away at all and sundry. Give it a good penetration (might as well use by wonderful apprentice before the swine gets himself gauntled in 2 years) and off we go.

I like the idea of knowledge of bones underground. Since an intellego corous spell wouldn't find a body protected by church ceremony this could be a good way to find more "Deaders" for me to mess with.

Hmmm, this gives me a good idea. The head of the staff is a human skull, I could always have it speak when certain conditions are met. i.e. "Danger Will Robinson! You are entering an infernal Aura!" Or words to those effects.

Here comes another query. Could i use one CrIm effect to speak, and have it triggered by a number of sensor spells that change what it says depending on which spell goes off?
i.e. 3 sensors set to trigger the "Voice" spell, each sensor is attuned to a realm (magic, faerie, divine) and makes the spell say a predetermined sentence when the sensor triggers?

Is this posible?

Well you get a bucket full of lab bonuses to put your attack spell into the talisman but once it is in there it won't improve. On the other hand if you just learn a spell you can later increase your art scores your penetration score, your stamina and you can gain spell master and use sympathetic and arcane connections. so in the long run it might not be that good of a deal.

On the other hand if you link that attack spell up with a triggering intellego spell, then you're cookin' with gas.

I'd let you do that, sure.. I'm all for allowing more interesting and intriguing items :slight_smile:

I generally figure that each linked trigger in an effect includes both a clause when it triggers (ie, obviously a spell isn't continually going off just because the InMe is running, it only triggers when it reads a specific word or such), and also includes the specific casting rules for the effect (like say a specific thing in your example.. whereas if a mage was just concentrating and activated the power himself.. he could get the item to say whatever he liked)

Well, a Hermetic Spell in an item is still a Hermetic Spell, subject to the same restrictions, and needing to penetrate any MR etc.

I know that a spirit buried by the Church is beyond reach, but merely finding a buried body?... Don't remember Holy Ground having that effect, but any Divine Aura would normally be a casting penalty, which an item would ignore.

Of course. 3 spells, 3 effects, np. You could have it "whisper" something directly into your ear, which might be less disconcerting to those around. (You could use a CrMe, but IF(?) I understand/remember the rules correctly, that would have to penetrate any MR you have running at the moment - unless a talisman can bypass that???)

It can. A talisman can effect the caster at range personal. Personal range spells bypass MR.

Although I think this is an awesome idea, and my Verditius may just have to make one of these...
...be careful of code violations. You could get in trouble for scrying. even if it has no penetration, Recaps are full members of the order, but have no MR.


It can. A talisman can effect the caster at range personal. Personal range spells bypass MR.

I wasn't aware of that, can you point the specific page of the book to me?



page 98, main rule book. Third column.

Makes for some very powerful items. Especially if they don't need any penetration.

Sorry, my example was badly worded. I meant having a constantly active enchantment causing the staff to yelp if you went anywhere near a dead body. I wouldn't detect bodies buried in church ceremony but it would find corpses in the strangest of places i'd wager and would be an excellent tool for a necromancer to find new research materials.

Intellego spell, Duration = Concentration, item maintains concentration- sounds pretty straightforward to me.

I've just re-read the laboratory chapter.

I think that the only way a mage can bypass his parma and form resistance is with a talisman. Indeed on page 98 in the first column it is stated:

"First, your talisman is considered to be a part of you as long as you are toutching it. Personnal range spells can affect your talisman, Personnal range effects in the talisman can affect you, and you count as toutching anything that your talisman is toutching."

But that mean that, witout suppressing your parma magica (and form resistance) other object, even made by your own mage must penetrate even at low range... Because personnal affect the target of the spell (the enchanted items) not the mage (to affect the mage it must be a toutch range). Without house ruling it mean that it can be quite complicated to be effectively under an enchantement instilled inside an magical object of your own creation.

Another benefit of having a talisman?

Yep, it is a pain having to have every non-talisman item which effects you penetrate your Parma. Though you could always get one of your magi to try to create a Hermetic breakthrough altering the Parma to allow your own magic to penetrate. However this does have downsides - such as flames you create to burn the house toasting you.

Though, if it is a constant duration effect it only needs to penetrate your parma once, when you put it on. When you put on the ring, or grip the staff you can lower your parma to allow the effect in, and then it stays in until it ends.

Since "constant" effects in Ars tend to be duration:sun renewed automaticly at sunset and sunrise, it would need to penetrate at each renewal...

Actually, no - the rules clearly address this: "Such a device (Dur = Sun, Env Trigger, 2 uses/day) has a truly constant effect; there are no "flickers" at sunrise or sunset" (p99, inset, "Constant Effect Devices"), so if designed to be "Continuous" then it could be ruled that it never actually stops.

No flickers, no. But that doesn't mean it doesn't have to be renewed (just that it renews itself at the exact moment it fades).

So constant effects only seem to be constant. But if parma question comes in the difference becomes obvious.

After reading your posts I can put in my talisman a mindreading effect and I will get the infos, isn't it?
In the case of a standard magic item I have to give an additional side-effect forwarding the captured infos to my mind. Is it right?

Actually, I agree fully with cuch, as to me, that's what that bit of the book says, it creates a truly constant effect.

The reason we go with that is simple.. because why would you choose Sun, Enviro Trigger, and 2 uses per day.. when you could use Concentration, Maintains Concentration, Enviro Trigger, and 2 uses per day?

The concentration duration, if the sun thing wasn't constant, would be -far- superior.. as it gives you the option of cancelling it if you wish, just by concentrating on it.

(Note, that concentration thing is handy for magical lights.. so you can turn them off when you want to go to sleep, then it'll auto come back on at dawn)