Enslave the Mortal Mind

If a magus uses this spell and wants another suggestion later how can he use it again? The duration is Sun thus:
A he can implement new commands anytime regardless the distance (Range)
B he can cause new effects only when he sees into the eyes of his target again
C he have to cast the spell again for new effect the Sun duration means merely the duration of the old effect
D other.

For me he can fully control during sun, regardless the range. He has control since the casting.

It's a rego spell, so any change he do (controlling the victim) is "natural" and the subject is considered as he would always have thought/act like that. Then, the target do what he want to achieve his ideas. But, he can't go against the "control".

Asturus is casting a spell on Buspur. He want him to kill Burburus.

Buspur has now the "kill Burburus" idea on his mind, and so will do anything to kill him. During the sun duration, he can't decide "oh, finally, i don't want to kill Burburus".
After the sun, he can change his mind. BUT he has no reason to do so... because "kill Burburus" is "natural" in his mind.
And, during the sun duration, he will never be able to thought "it's strange, I can't stop myself from wanting to kill Burburus".

Asturus could have also ordered, in the same "sun duration" with the same spell:

  • dance with Lady A
  • drink wine (even if you don't like it)
  • spit on the King of France
  • embrace his wife

And so on.

He just need to "order mentally" Buspur. No need to talk, no need to recast, no need to be in range. He could be on the other side of the planet.

I believe the spell is not under the caster's control once cast. Spells are generally not under the caster's control once cast, unless they're of Concentration duration or extra magnitudes or a Rego-requisite added (just extra magnitudes for this, a Rego spell). So the caster cannot issue new commands, the correct answer is C.

However, the best effect is simply to make the subject completely subservient and loyal to the caster for the duration of the spell. In this case, he can issue new commands the target will follow throughout the Sun duration.

I found something on the page 111, Ranges, 2nd paragraph.
A continuing effect remains in effect even the caster moves out of range. A spell that allows the caster to control the effect only permits that control as long as the caster is within range. He may control it again if he moves back into range.
So the official view is 'B'.

Thanks for the answers anyway.

Here the caster cannot control the effect, it's the effect which is the control. It's totally different than , for example, a flying spell : there you need to go up/down, fly strait line etc.

Do you mean the mind change is not an effect?
Or the magus cannot control how the target's mind changes?

He means (I think) that a spell allows the caster to control the effect only if it says so specifically. Otherwise, there is no point in making the distinction. You can control the effect of a flying spell i.e. change the wind's direction to fly you where you want; you cannot control the effect of an EtMM, it is set when you cast it and the spell maintains it, as it does not explicitly say you can change it.

D - Other. The question is moot because anyone who's that good at Rego Mentem knows they can set the target to be loyal to the caster, desire to obey the caster, etc. The loyalty and obedience could even be directed at another. Once you've done this, the relevant person has nearly total control without needing any more magic.


If this is the issue I disagree. The relevant rule is clear. The spell controls something - EtMM controls the target's mind and not the spell itself. Only Vim spells designed to affect other spells.

So if the target has desire to obey the caster the magus can implement new commands in the target's mind from miles and/or without saying her any word?

I didn't say that, but yes if the caster can somehow contact the person's mind silently over that range (just a communication spell is needed). I said the question is moot. The ability to choose between the choices given becomes compromised. While the magic may appear not to allow more than Eye range, it does allow you to set up other ranges, as long as you are able to communicate in some manner over those ranges. I feel the question needs to be restated.

Anyway, the question does give you "control" for the duration, which has very different implications than setting. So your earlier answer is valid for resetting parameters and for magical commands. However, any way commands may be issued over any distance by the person towards whom obedience is set could work, too. For instance, if you've made the target loyal to you by this spell at range Eye, you could then call out commands for him to follow without needing eye contact. However, you couldn't reset the target's loyalty to be toward someone else without reestablishing eye contact.

Anyway, this is why I said the question itself is moot. I recommend reconsidering and restating the original question.


OK. For you the question is about subsequent magical mind changes within Duration.

I'm with the B crowd... only while within the range of the spell. And the spell description is fairly simple, only stating that it allows you control x, y, and z. I note that this isn't a statement that you get to set a given alteration to these factors, but that you are controlling them. To me that implies control over duration.

I join with callen´s statement:

Which i guess is mostly choice B, though with some additions.