Extraordinary Results Table

The threads about experimentation have made me wonder whether the Extraordinary Results Table might benefit from tweaking. For the most part, I think it's fine — interesting, but not too much of a burden on the troupe.

On the Disaster subtable, two options are a problem.

5–6 is likely to kill the magus. That's boring. How about replacing the damage with one Heavy wound, plus an additional one for every point of Risk Modifier? This won't kill the magus, but it will take him out of action for a while. Or even Incapacitating, with some additional Heavy Wounds if you are pushing the envelope.

7–8 puts pressure on the storyguide, and so should probably be replaced.

The same is also true of "Special or story event".

What might be good replacements for these?

And then we can add text saying that any result other than "No extraordinary effects" may be accompanied by a story event, if the storyguide has something they want to use.

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Oracles to randomly generate something? Except its likely highly dependent on what is being done in the lab that season.

I wonder if the Story Event situation wouldn't be better served if it were framed "story event or xyz", rather than by allowing story events at every level. That is already true after all, a storyteller can pick each aspect of covenant life as a hook.

Having a situation that actively promots the ST with "hey, this could really be a story event now" could be beneficial, otherwise we run into the "if everything is a potential story event, nothing is" problem.

By offering an alternative instead, we keep the push for a story event, while giving an out if it happens to be inconvenient. Possibly the best of both worlds.

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That is true. Part of the point is to avoid putting unwanted pressure on the storyguide, though.

What about expanding "Complete Failure" to 8–9, and adding a note that this could indicate a Story Event, which would disrupt the research so that nothing could be gained?

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Suggestions:

  • Unexpected cost: the activity requires 2 + Risk modifier paws of virtus (Vim or related to the activity) for the season to be completed. If the cost cannot be paid (lack of virtus or it would exceed the amount the mage can handle in one season), the season of work is wasted (Complete failure).
  • Extended stabilisation required: the experiment went wild, and it would requires immediately an additional season of work to salvage this season's work. If the mage cannot do it, the whole season is wasted.

Both suggestions are touching the two most precious thing for a mage: virtus and time. Since they both offer an option to salvage the Disaster into a "relative" success, it slightly increases the chance of success while doing Original research, but at a cost.

I am also fine with the Wound alternative proposed by @David_Chart .

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You're right that 5-6 is likely to kill the magus. Changing it to being 1-4 heavy wounds means that it is impossible to kill the magus. Some sagas will want to avoid magus deaths and others will accept it as part of the risk and the fun. Changing it from risking death to risking a bunch of wounds is going to make the former happy, and the later uninterested... Especially because many covenants will view 4 heavy wounds as a -8 vis cost for a healing ritual and move on.
For this reason I'd actually suggest two alternatives: Make them Incapacitating wounds instead of Heavy Wounds, giving all the rest of the covenant something to do; or make it a story-scene.

5-6 Catastrophe! The lab has an explosion, causing a stress die + (10 + spell magnitude) damage. Volatile elements in the lab continue to explode for 2 more rounds (and additional round equal to the risk modifier), and with 3 additional damage every round. The lab and its equipment are ruined regardless, and roll a simple die for each valuable item in the lab. On a 0 it is destroyed.

Or Something Dramatic like that. Give the players a chance to roleplay and react as things get categorically worse. The numbers probably need to get tweaked, obviously...

For the backfire event, it does put pressure on the storyguide. I don't consider that a huge problem, though having some guidelines would be good. I actually have MORE problem with the non-Disaster 'Special or Story Event' - I have this strong instinct to make it some kind of positive or neutral event, because its not a disaster.

I would probably change the disaster to something like this:

Your experiment backfires in a fashion likely to destroy one of the covenant's boons or resources, either through fire, or something related to a covenant Hook, or some other threat the Storyguide can contrive. Particularly risky experiments or dramatic botches might even endanger the entire covenant.

And the Special or Story Event also I would want some kind of guide. The existing one is pretty... sparse in description and demanding in expectation.
Either some effect not covered elsewhere occurs, or, at the storyguide’s option, an event unfolds as a result of your work which involves the entire covenant.
So I'd want something closer to:

An event not covered elsewhere occurs; Either a revelation on a covenant Hook or Boon, revealing of a covenant secret to the players, a chance to earn a new covenant Boon, or some other story event that involves the covenant or its environs.

I also really like Ezechiel's ideas that require additional work.

The additional work is nice and simple. I'd say Vis of the arts relevant to what is being developed (so a CrCo spell would need Cr or Co vis...)

I have been there. Having to come up with a story event linked to the magical lab activity at hand can be tricky. I just told my players we'd have a toilet break to give me time to think. Luckily, it was a ReCo spell being developed so one of the recent dead villagers rose from the grave and attacked the nearest mage (wounding him thanks to surprise...) But it was tricky, and zombies is an obvious one. I do like the idea of a story event, but the ST needs to have some prep for this, so knowing in advance what could happen depending on what the experiment is, so that it matches in themes etc it's a lot of work which might never be used.

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I like both of Ezechiel's suggestions. I really dislike extending the range of Complete failure, as it is just boring.
Bob

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My experience has been that rolls on the Extraordinary Results Table tend to happen in down time, or at the end of a session because they are the results of a season's work. That gives the Storyguide plenty of time to figure out how to use the result. The only time a Story result has happened to me yet, it actually made my life easier. I now had an excuse to physically drop the characters into a scenario I hadn't figured out how to attract them to, simultaneously giving them more clues as to the nature of their regio.

For the Disaster 5-6, I think the central element is that this disaster generates a severe personal cost for the magus. He could be wounded (needs healing or time to heal), his lab may be destroyed (time to replace or repair it), some things precious to him may be destroyed or damaged (lab, enchantments, talisman, familiar). Leave it up to the storyguide or chance.

If you want to give guidelines as numbers (to avoid having the SG make this kind of call), maybe this should represent a loss equivalent to the loos of a number of seasons equal to simple die + magnitude of the effect being experimented on. If the saga supports deadly consequences, then a 0 on that roll means the magus is killed (or undergoes an early Final Twilight).


For Disaster 7-8, some of the cost spills over to the covenant as a whole. Some covenant resources are destroyed, its reputation is damaged, some important people are killed. Other magi are wounded, or some of the precious things are damaged or destroyed.

You can use the same guidelines as the Disaster 5-6 for the number of seasons of work destroyed, but most of these will be lost by the covenant. The magus still dies on a roll of 0.


I don't think that Special or Story Event should be folded into Complete failure. My understanding from the current text is that the special event is added on top of a No extraordinary effects (meaning that the experiment itself may be a success). You could offer, as an alternative to a story, something like a number of Warping Points (which may send the magus into Twilight). Say simple die + Risk Modifier?

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Imo, having this kind of result on the table kind of makes the whole system unusable, especially if you're not using covenants, this just means "destroy your familiar or talisman, both if the magus isn't that old,," this is a bit beyond severe. If you don't want people to use a system you would be better off just taking it out.

A numeric analysis of this effect: you would expect to get ~half a magnitude of additional effect level when you experiment, this will usually save you between half a season and 2 seasons, let's call it 1 on average. You'll roll a 5-6 ~20% of the time and it costs you ~6 seasons on average, yielding an expected loss of 1.2 seasons from this effect when you experiment. So in the end you would expect to lose 20% of a season for each time you experiment, ignoring the contributions of other effects. I suppose this wouldn't be so bad if you were planning on doing it a lot, but the downside on doing it occasionally is quite high.

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The lost seasons don't have to be about things the magus has made in the past. It could be how much seasons he will need to spend to fix the results of his disaster.

And considering that the current result would most likely kill them outright...

But these would be guidelines, to be adjusted by the SG to take into account the actual context of the disaster. The SG might decide to inflict a minor flaw on the magus in addition to suffering a Heavy Wound, counting this being worth 4 seasons (or more), instead of killing the familiar. The guideline is just to give a scale of how severe the cost is.

To be clear I do mostly think think this about the experimentation rules as written currently

Clearly people have as much problems with Special or Story as I do.

I think my own default now is to have some good information on a Covenant Hook or magi Flaw come up, or some advancement of a Covenant Boon.

For someone's to-do list for next November : "30 Days of Experimentation Story Events".

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Instead of automatic wounds, I think toning down the damage would be best. Something that would let the magi react with a fast-cast defense to save himself, possibly. Perhaps a stress die + magnitude of the lab total would be more reasonable, yet still dangerous.

I enjoy them. Yes, it puts pressure on the story guide, but that's also true of many things a player might do. It's true of twilight scars... I've been building myself a chart to handle those when I lack inspiration, I admit :joy: I would not want to get rid of them.

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I ran a short story a few months ago when one of the magi had Special or Story Event during an experimentation. He was experimenting on a Mentem spell, so I had the magus suffer from nightmares and sleepwalk to an unexplored part of the cave network under the covenant, involving something about the magical aura of the covenant (the story is here).

Personally, I find such stories interesting. Not a burden at all, particularly in a PbP format. Certainly be more difficult to handle during a tabletop game.

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Side effects
1 - Clarify if the effect still works or not. Might be fun if the sigil part is so in-twined into the spell that even those that learn from the labtext experience your sigil.

Also maybe re-work it to use the same structure with addl risk modifiers

Discovery

  • Possibly add that you have an insight point and that you can write a tractatus about it in MT

ps. I still would prefer addl botch dices to be embedded here than generated via the supernatural aura.

+1 to the ideas of extra time & wounds

Disaster would also introduce lab warping values. Add a lab negative. Affect the aura in the lab. Make the lab inaccessible for a time.

W

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I've never been a fan of a story event happening with a 1/10 chance. Maybe 1/100? I'd like to see some more zany suggestions than just something so vague. Like, if the story event had it's own table of suggestions? That might be cool and give the PC and GM something to work with.

I'd also suggest adding a line such as "modify this whole extraordinary results table to suit your saga's needs."

In general, more zaniness and less danger of dying would be good. I'd love to see expanded tables with more types of results, including more suggestions.

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