Fast Casting

[Jonathan.Link]

Moved this discussion here as it only has to do with fast casting, doesn't address the issues of might stripping spells or the story issues Doogy and I had discussed surrounding these spells.

@The Fixer

@Jonathan.Link

Your magus is getting sliced by an opposing grog, after your shield grog was incapacitated, if you cast Wizard's Leap and succeed in the fast casting timing roll, you can cast the spell and evade a killing blow. If you fast cast Pilum of Fire, you're dead, and the grog might be dead depending on the damage/soak comparison. That's how fast casting should work.

As see your point, and I understand it, but, as discussed before, this contradicts LoM (fine, it's a HR), but also creates inconsistencies.

Considering the rules in Lords of Men are Optional, and therefore little more than House Rules, the contradiction is moot. Inconsistencies with fast casting are likely to be numerous and varied. To me, it makes no sense that two Flambeau facing off against each other that the loser of initiative could get his PoF off first. The reading of the fast cast rules to me are meant to mitigate the attack or other surprising event. Mitigation, in my mind, should be primarily defensive in nature.

@The Fixer

Either the spell occurs at best at the same time as the opposing action, and you can't teleport/fire a PoF before you get sliced, just (to quote you) "at the exact same moment the sword slices your belly open"

I suppose I am giving the tie to the fast caster in the case of a defensive spell. I have no problem with that, as it fits my vision of how fast casting spells are supposed to work, and even matches the examples provided in the main text.

@The Fixer

Or the spell can occur before the action is completed, and you can teleport/Fire your PoF before this happens.

Again, firing the PoF will happen, but so will the other guy's PoF. Why does your PoF which is fast cast get to the other guy first when you lost initiative? Because you have a higher finesse or got lucky on your Qik+Finesse roll? Not only that, you now have the other guy now deciding he wants to fast cast since he sees his opponent fast casting. When does it end? It is much simpler and involves much less die rolling to favor defensive spells for fast casting.

@The Fixer

I can see a ruling saying that some momentum is still carried, so that you still takes some damage, but then, it shouldn't convey the same force, and the damage should be lessened.
It ignores PeCo "disintegrate" spells: You can teleport before the grog strikes you, but you can't disintegrate him before this happens?

This would be (at best) an example of an offensive spell used in a defensive manner. It is similar to Mighty Torrent of Water against PoF or BoAF. But, I'm not aware of a guideline that instantly turns a person from a living breathing person to dust. There are guidelines to Kill (level 30) and a guideline to destroy a corpse (level 5) but not one that does both instantly. So, all that can be done is to actually kill the grog as he stabs you. Indeed since the spell is so high level (Level 40 at Voice range) I'm not all that concerned with it being put into play as a defensive measure.

@The Fixer

Likewise, it ignores that not all actions are instantanenous, so under your ruling, one can create a wall to stop a running grog before he's reached the Portal that'll teleport him, but can't kill him before, only as just as he teleports. IIRC, normal spellcasting also takes one round, it's not "zap", so why can't a magus be interrupted in the middle of his spellcasting*?. And so on.

Take any rule, and you can find exploits. I'm trying to minimize exploits that slow down combat, frankly fast casting and rolling to see who really goes first is an example of that. If fast cast is used defensively, you don't have it. It's also, IMO, closest to the RAW, especially as the example is laid out. I have no hard and fast answer against your proposed grog running away, but since it doesn't involve fast casting as a response to an attack, I have no problem of a fast cast offensive spell happening. The grog's momentum probably propels him through the portal to the other side, though.
As to the why can't a magus be interrupted in the middle of his spell casting, that's exactly my point, why can't the magus who started casting first interrupt his own spell casting and respond with a fast cast spell? If you want to attack first, get initiative. Sometimes the dice roll poorly, I get that, and for that reason fast casting exists to save your bacon, not for you to beat your own initiative and deliver your offensive spells first.

@The Fixer

IMO, you'd maybe be better of either disallowing fast-casting entirely, or, probably better, just the fast-casting mastery (If players spont offensive spells, they won't spont much, or not for long).

That's your opinion. I think fast casting adds to the game, as it gives magi tools to keep them from being killed instantly, it gives them a chance. Turning it around as a tool for offensive purposes is, IMO, wrong.