Faust as a Tytalus Magus

In order to appease your ego. Yeah, you're right. You're always right, One Shot.
Note, I'm disregarding your erroneous supposition that I was proposing such a magus would have two voting sigils, which I never stated, nor implied.

Meanwhile my player and I arranged with the option, that the magus will be a Titanoi. We´re now thinking about his characters background. Obviously the Tytalus could be tortured in his apprenticeship by his cruel master. Then he learns parma magica and knows his apprenticeships is coming to an end. He takes revenge (?) and kills his master. The master dies happily with his last words: "By murdering me you passed your gauntlet." Then the Tytalus walks down the next Tribunal and has his membership in the order confirmed. O.K. so far.

But where is the supernatural entity?
And where are the Titanoi?

Option 1: The master was a Titanoi and taught the apprentice the preconditions for this kind of magic. The young magus further actions attracted the attention of a supernatural entity.
Option 2: The master was a Titanoi and taught the apprentice the preconditions for this kind of magic. A Mystagoge of the Titanoi was an acquaintance of the master. After the masters death he initiated the young magus.
Option 3: The master was a Tytalus but no Titanoi. The apprentice killed him and that attracted the attention of the supernatural entity. This entity made a Titanoi out of the apprentice.
Option 4: The master was a Titanoi. The apprentice was disgusted by this kind of magical practice, killed him and that attracted the attention of the supernatural entity. This entity made a Titanoi out of the apprentice (Aaaah, no escaaaaape!)

What do you think? Are there further possibilities? Which is the most interesting?

Option 5: The apprentice killed the master, and was gauntleted, the Titanoi thought they detected a kindred spirit of a sort and invited him and initiated him into their cult...

Keep in mind, that asking us to make a choice is taking choice away from the player, who has to play this character.

Yeah, you´re right. I will wait for his own proposals. I´ll present him the ideas in this thread only if he wants to have an advice.

Also consider killing the master may also give the weak parens flaw, describing by the master and/or the foreshortened apprenticeship.

You should come up with a proposal to your player, just how these last words of the Tytalus master are remembered. After all, some trusted magus should know and bear witness at Tribunal, that your player's magus actually has passed his gauntlet and should receive his sigil.


You might consider that Titanoi are theurgists, summoning and controlling spiritual entities. What did the master and/or his friends control? How did they do so? What did some spiritual entities think of the master?
The PC magus might have made friends, allies or enemies of some spiritual entities already as an apprentice. Some might even have helped him to kill his master. Some might further advise, lead or antagonize him after the gauntlet. These entities may be demons (RoP:TI, p.50ff - Guazzo? or even Forcas and the Famulus he provides?) or daimons (TMRE, p.137ff - perhaps Honos?).


So you are saying an apprentice had his future voting sigil given to a Tremere, and when came the time of his Gauntlet he could not select another token as his sigil?
I wonder what happens if an apprentice's sigil is lost, is he screwed?

I have one question about the Titanoi: In "The Mysteries: Revised Edition" I read: "... infernal rites are not unknown, and the Corruption of House Tytalus is too recent a memory for anyone in the Order of Hermes to forget how easy it is to slip from practicing the true science of hermetic magic to the blackest of sorceries of the Infernal realm." (p. 5) Similar statements about "The Betrayal" you can find on some other places. But on the other hand, all I can find about the Titanoi sounds like adherents of magical entities and all examples of Daimons are magic. Why can´t the titans be infernal?

Titans, in canon are magical beings.

Now the Titanoi are a Cult that summons them. However, they may turn their summoning techniques to summoning infernal beings and acquire the powers that they can offer.

House Tytalus doesn't have to actually have an infernal taint. The Betrayal could have been perpetrated as a coup of sorts to assume control of House Tytalus through unconventional means.

O.K. The Titanoi summon the Titans via Hermetic Theurgy. This Mystery Virtue is about Daimons. Daimons are magic (and perhaps faerie) entities. Is there any stay regarding the infernal accusations of house Tytalus in the rules?

There is.

(Underscore mine.)

So some Titanoi may have the full arsenal of Goetic Arts at their disposal, and summon and use all of the more refined demons. You decide - with your player and eventually the other troupe - the type of the Titanoi that knew the master of his character.


So the ArM4 Tremere master cannot even present his apprentice's sigil to the Quaesitor or Tribunal ratifying, that the apprentice has passed his gauntlet and should become a member of the Order of Hermes? Unless he wishes to portray himself to the Order as a bumbling fool, he best should make another sigil before the scheduled date, and never ever mention that lost sigil. (BTW: If you wish to further discuss ArM4 Tremere sigils, please create a new thread for it.)


That´s exactly what I was searching for. Thank you very much.

So the sigil is not invested until the Gauntlet is ratified, that's good enough for me.