Finnesse - To make it clear [+Spell]

One question about craft Rego/Creo and illusions:
-To replicate/copy/emulate things with magic, do you need Perception + Finnesse right?
-To create/design/remember things with magic, do you need Intelligence + Finnesse?
Sometimes the Ability references confuse me...

This spell, effect would it work?

By the RAW, it is Perception+Finesse every time you use Finesse.

Such a spell would work, but I question the value/validity of the portion which I underlined. Without it, this becomes an interesting fast-cast response to the School of Vilano.

Could you please clarify why you are so certain of this statement?
Emphasis mine.

Sorry, I was on my phone before.

Targets are determined either by the spell (auto hits, must penetrate), or Finese-aimed spells. Therefore, you could change the target by taking control of the Finesse-action to aim the spell. Therefore, you should be able to take over the finesse of any spell as a Significant change using MuVi.

Changing the target is not the same as adding finesse.
I agree with taking over the finesse roll, but simply adding your finesse together with someone else's?

Again Emphasis Mine.

I'd argue these were 2 different spells, and that only one of them is possible.
You can change the target and thus roll finesse in place of the original caster, but I'm not happy about letting people add finesse togther.

Well spotted, Tellus. I missed that first bit during my initial read.

I agree that adding two Finesse scores together is a different spell than co-opting the Finesse roll. I feel that it is, by the RAW, just as viable for the same reasons, but I wouldn't allow it IMS.

I must admit that I initially only caught the first bit and not the second, so yeah...

Not really. Raw isn't all that hot on adding things together like that.

Add +1 finesse to the original caster might be easier, and represent the same kind of help without being overpowered.

I like the idea, BTW :slight_smile:


Any mechanics that actually add two Ability scores as well as a Characteristic should not be too common in the rules. I would try to stay clear of it.

Sure I know Verditii add Craft to Lab Totals which already include Magic Theory, but still...And certain Casting Scores use two Arts/Abilities as well as a Characteristic, For Ability rolls I'd prefer not to do this. But taking over another magus' Finesse roll seems like a nice idea.

....which tangents me to the question of, "Does Rego Craft magic have to use Finesse?" Is it possible for magi to make magic items which enhance a user's innate skill, rather than supplant it?

...and Philosophiae, but that's still abilities from the same character, meaning the same XP pool.
Not the same thing at all.

Don't Verditii add craft skills of their forge companions to their lab total as well? Never paiod much attention to the verditius myself (nobody is interested in them in my troupe, so they are colorful NPC that do what we want them to do, no hard rules here) but I seem to recally that from my reading of HOH:MC

I think that this spell works near to the 2 related effects on one spell granted by 1 magnitud to the flexiblity, just like the MuCo to grow and to shrink, just with the same spell.
The part of the collaboration is needed only if the two spell casters collaborate, but again that is only on the situation of the spellcasting not to the spell design, so with your observations the spell should be like this:

And sorry, i wronged on the calculation, the first spell must be 10 levels higher to the affected spell.

And the other spell:

Xvi, the no Verditius don't add Craft to the lab total, but could have some lab virtues by one good material or one helper.


A spell is a one-person tool, so it'd be like holding the same tennis racket. You may hand it to the better player, but if both are trying to use it at the same time, they'll only get into each other's way.
This makes no sense, and, game balance wise, is, IMO, ill-advised.

I guess you have not been trained by a teacher in physical stuff then :slight_smile: Teachers DO hold the tennis racket with you at the same time to show you how to make a swing. It is extremely awkward, but it works. :slight_smile: There are cases wherte you are aiming (for example) and they go around and push your aim slightly to the right or left (or up or down) and then say "release" and tyou get a better result. I would say we are pointing towards the later: the aprpentice is moving a recipient and turning it to throw the content into another recipient. Then the master goes around and pushes the recipient slightly to the left so the aim is improved and the material is thrown where it should go instead of spilling through the floor :slight_smile: Will not correct an abysmal aim roll, but can improve somehow the general aim slikk of the apprentice/less precise magus.


So... the spells that change one human to Wolf and wolf to human based on the core rules guides... I mean that by that reason i put the +1 magnitud to the special or flexibity, could higher again and that should make the bonus or the change of user more ajusted and balanced.

IIRC they add 1/5th of their forge companion's skill.

Craft and Philosophiae is btw only added when enchanting items, ofcourse.

I assist in teaching (a very specific form of) swordplay.
I would never hold the sword together with the student.
I would show and I would move the student's hands, but you cannot make a decent blow with a second person holding onto things.

Ah, I see :slight_smile: I guess you can see the point of adding a small bonus, then.
Your student is beating the crap out of a training post. You go and observe him and move his shoulders or his sword 20 cm upwards, so that his blow is better. Isn't it how you do it?

Yes, making a good blow with the teacher holding the sword at the same time as the student is almost impossible, but getting a bonus from better positioning is how you get a better output. Isn't it?