Forest Lore: Arcane or Supernatural?

[Fruny]

As Timothy Ferguson stated,

[Guardian of the Forests is] 99% compatible with 5th edition. That is, it's a 5th edition book, but it was written early in the edition and the authors have shifted the ground out from under it a bit in later books.

Among other things, the Arcane Ability Forest Lore (GoTF p. 37) got reclassified and subsumed into the Supernatural Ability Nature Lore (HoH:MC p. 105). That's an important change: while before it was easily accessible to the Gifted and the Non-Gifted alike (e.g. hedge witch with Arcane Lore), it became the domain of the initiated few. So, beside making it a purely Rhine-specific variation, does anyone have any particular thought they want to put forward?

[Erik_Dahl]

It seems to me that this is only a problem when we have a character with the Arcane Ability of Forest Lore who wants to initiate the inner Nature mysteries. Wouldn't it be all right for the character with Forest Lore to proceed as if he possessed the outer mystery of Nature Lore? I don't think he needs to initiate the Supernatural version of Forest Lore if he's already got it as an Arcane skill.

[Fruny]

Well, that particular issue is adressed in HoH:MC - they don't have to buy it again. But the classification does have important consequences. First during character creation and second, in play, because Supernatural abilities give Warping points when you botch.

[Erik_Dahl]

@Fruny

Well, that particular issue is adressed in HoH:MC - they don't have to buy it again. But the classification does have important consequences. First during character creation and second, in play, because Supernatural abilities give Warping points when you botch.

Ah. Well, I guess Forest Lore is just inherently better than Nature (Forest) Lore in that respect.

[Jarkman]

I've come across this again and am a bit confused - what is the actual status of Forest Lore (Arcane) vs Nature Lore (Forest) (Supernatural/Mystery)?

GotF seems to hint that there are magi of the Rhine Tribunal that become true "Guardians of the Forest" and disappear from Hermetic society (perhaps as Merinitia did) which implies that some walk a Forest Path and learn the equivalent of the Nature Mystery: Guardian of Nature perhaps as a 2nd Fruit after initially gaining the Minor Virtue: Awakening. I'd call it the "Path of the Forestal" but I suspect Stephen Donaldson has dibs on that as a name so perhaps just "The Path of the Guardian".

The text of HoH:MC p102-106 implies that a character can use any Nature Lore as a separate mechanic to gain Mystery powers, one that does not rely on the score in Nature Lore but is a point for point trade of Virtue for Flaw with an obligatory Quest. It in fact refers to GotF p37-40 for examples of "walking the path".

Is this the correct interpretation?

Thanks,

Jarkman

[Erik_Dahl]

@Jarkman

I've come across this again and am a bit confused - what is the actual status of Forest Lore (Arcane) vs Nature Lore (Forest) (Supernatural/Mystery)?

Forest Lore is Arcane, and Nature (Forest) Lore is Supernatural. Perhaps Forest Lore is a special application of Nature (Forest) Lore that has become a little more mainstream?

@Jarkman

GotF seems to hint that there are magi of the Rhine Tribunal that become true "Guardians of the Forest" and disappear from Hermetic society (perhaps as Merinitia did) which implies that some walk a Forest Path and learn the equivalent of the Nature Mystery: Guardian of Nature perhaps as a 2nd Fruit after initially gaining the Minor Virtue: Awakening. I'd call it the "Path of the Forestal" but I suspect Stephen Donaldson has dibs on that as a name so perhaps just "The Path of the Guardian".

Sounds good to me.

@Jarkman

The text of HoH:MC p102-106 implies that a character can use any Nature Lore as a separate mechanic to gain Mystery powers, one that does not rely on the score in Nature Lore but is a point for point trade of Virtue for Flaw with an obligatory Quest. It in fact refers to GotF p37-40 for examples of "walking the path".

Is this the correct interpretation?

Nature Lore is supposed to function exactly like Forest Lore, because they're both based on the same idea. There are some minor differences like those mentioned earlier in the thread because Nature Lore is Supernatural and Forest Lore is Arcane, but in concept a magus with the Virtue should be able to "walk the path" in another sort of terrain just as well as those with Forest Lore can do in the forests.