Forging your hatred

In short, we want to make a sword of hatred.
A madcap idea my group has been throwing around before and after game; I'll start with background. It started with my players bartering with a faerie merchant for a powerful magical sword, with an ephemeral nature. I believe the term was 'it is a weapon not yet forged'. There was a some discussion on how the Verditius would be able to make an item of such a nature - but since time is a constant that mages cannot skip through, he decided it was a lie. Or impossible. However, he could forge a sword out of something... ephemeral.
Muto Mentem guidelines dictate a base 25 to give a mind or spirit solid form, and example the Inmost Companion spell. What if you take the same base, prereq: Terram, T:Part so you only target a particular emotion; You distill someone's hatred into a physical metal ore. Then you forge that into a sword. The real problem is that it's only a temporary thing, and there is NO way in the books I can easily see to make this permanent for our Verditius. You can dump vis into making permanent objects, such as metal or stone, but the Muto art can't be made to last forever.
I had briefly thought of a very convoluted spell, CrTe(MuMe) to create a metal permanently, with the requisites to mean that you are creating a physical object and binding it to the more ephemeral arts.. but this feels off as well. Any thoughts on forging a blade from a man's hatred?

Lead has a base +3 S/M bonus that might be useable with Items of Quality. An alchemical Reagent may be able to increase that bonus.

The Attuned Items mystery leaves aspects of the creator's personality in an item in the form of a Covet Item personality trait. Experimentation side effects during the creation of the item might change that.

Rather than making the sword's metal out of hatred via a MuMe spell, make the consumables out of the hatred with the spell instead - ie the fire/fuel for forging, water for quenching, clay for the mold, etc.

The Spell Binding virtue from TMRE could allow the MuMe spell solidifying the metal to be extended in duration (The bound container could be the pommel stone or something).

The Thief of Emotions Supernatural ability from GotF, pg. 40 might provide some options/ideas.

This seems a lucrative approach to me. For example, don't make the Sword out of hatred, make the anvil out of hatred. Your Muto spell can be recast every day or month, ensuring the anvil gets well and truly Warped, and you forge the sword by hammering it on your warped anvil of pure hatred.

Another option to make an ephemeral sword would be to use a ghost, Mentem. A ghost from an appropriate life can summon its own sword already, making it out of the ectoplasm of which its body is also made. Faerie do the same thing, actually; you'd use MuVi(Te) to turn a Faerie into metal.

Make a hilt with MuMe that transforms the weilder's hatred into a blade for a set duration.

Hmm.. I really need to go back over TMRE. I've only actually looked at about half of the mystery options in any depth. Some of them might be able to do it. I should eventually get GotF... I really like the idea of the anvil, could have some fun little Warping. These are all a lot of good ideas that are tangential to the final goal: solidifying emotions for crafting. Hells, I want to play a Mentem-specialist Verditius now.

Yeah... we had discussed this option, and it could be a fun item... But it doesn't quite work for kidnapping our Jerbiton's rival brother who hates him with a death-passion, stealing his smodering familial rage, and turning it into a weapon that anyone can wield. :wink:

I think my current best idea is to cast a month-duration spell to solidify the emotions, forge the blade, recasting the spell as necessary. Then you can enchant the sword to maintain the spell.. Ooh. An enchanted anvil that solidifies the emotions and maintains the spell, then you can enchant the sword to keep itself solidified as metal from there.

We may also want to make our Tremere a dagger forged of her Generosity.

Item Concept:
The Forge of Wills, MuMe(Te) 60
When you put an arcane connection into the forge and activate it, the forge transmutes a shard of the target's personality into iron, that can be forged and crafted into an item. Originally intended to turn hatred into a weapon. it's likely possible to design a forge that distills other emotions. It's quite suggested to craft some form of magical item to maintain the effect indefinitely, since using the forge again will stop sustaining the transmutation of the mind.
R:AC, D: Conc, T: Part
(Base 25, +1 Conc, +1 Part, +4 AC; +5 item maintains concentration)
You could have this be level 45 if you wanted to forge your own emotions (or touch range)

And possibly: Shard of Hate MuMe(Te) 39
R Personal, D Sun, T Ind?
This sword is forged out of raw hatred(vengeful +3 personality trait), and has been enchanted to maintain its form.
(Base 25, +2 sun, +1 uses, +3 env trigger)
I am CERTAIN I'm getting this wrong.

This is a great thread. I was trying to think of what my memory Tytalus mage would set as a kind of goal to reach research wise and I think I just found it. Through the use of Dream magics you can probably extract the emotions and even memories, as well as random dream stuff, to be able to use as materials. The one thing is however that you'd still need to find a way to ensure that the emotions or memories you get come in the form you desire which in dream magic may be possible but would probably require a bit of a workaround. The big thing for me is trying to not make it so that the object is simply an enchanted item due to the warping that would likely happen as well as the need to penetrate.

The use of emotions for the tools used to craft a material is an interesting idea because it could allow you to use the fire of hate/anger to heat the mettle, hammer it on the anvil of bravery/stubbornness(?) and then finish it off by quenching it in the oils of serenity/calmness. what kind of a result would doing this create. I'm interested to know what crafting with emotions and memories would produce and would love to hear what you guys think as I'll also be bringing this up with my story guide.

Well... Near as I can tell, RAW the effect of forging a sword out of hatred actually is just the same as making it out of iron/steel, oh, except it requires defeating magic resistance now. There's nothing in the rules I found that give any special properties to magically created materials. my group did briefly discuss the effects of it; for example a sword forged out of pure hatred might bypass armor, since chainmail can't protect you from someone's hate (idea discarded); It may be a more damaging sword, since someone with Wrath+5 personality trait would make a REALLY dangerous sword(seems pretty powerful); We discussed using Verditius item of virtue to activate the previous effect; Our favorite idea was inflicting the perosnality trait on the victim. If you forge a sword out of Wrath +5, damaging someone with it might leave the emotion bled into their wound, giving them a wound-based personality trait until it healed fully (+1 Wrath for a light wound, +3 moderate, etc). We liked that last idea best, but since its far off from any of our magi getting it, we didn't have to worry about it.