Founders of the Order of Hermes

Necroposting about a good post!

I'm preparing some table of the fate of the Founders but i need informations:

So what about the others?
and what about their gender? (update after post of David Chart)

Male - Bonisagus Missing - last seen in Greece
(Female - Trianoma died in her sleep)
Male - Guernicus => maybe dead or in twilight, but some rumors that he's waiting beneath the earth, waiting for the day the Order falls.
Male - Mercere => dead and cremated
Male - Tremere => dead but no more information on the event

Male - Criamon in Twilight
Female - Merinita missing but may still be around as a spirit of nature
Female - Bjornaer wandered off in bear form and may still be around as a magical bear
Male - Verditius => dead
(Female - Diedne ?)

Female - Pralix => vanished, possibly killed by Tytalus magi
Male - Tytalus disappeared into the Maddenhofen Woods, a faerie realm
Male - Flambeau => dead.
Male - Jerbiton => dead and christian burial

For all those i don't write Male, i doubt they are female, but i'm unsure.
Can someone achieve the table or help me to achieve it?

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I tend to favour the Vastly powerful in one area, actually pretty weak in others approach. The reason Hermetic Theory is such a big deal that it requires capital letters is that is allows magi to communicate their magical knowledge and learn from each other - it's a framework in which things can be understood. Flambeau doubtless knew things about Ignem that no magus since has approached for two reasons:
Firstly, Flambeau probably learned a few rituals from his pater, some of the lesser things, and then spent the rest of his life mucking about with what are now called Ignem, Rego and Creo vis. Only after Bonisagus taught him was it really possible for him to grasp the Terram magics of Guernicus - prior to the formalisation of the Arts, the usual penalty for learning foreign magic would have applied.
Secondly, Hermetic Theory is incomplete, and thus not all of the knowledge could have been translated and taught, though it might be possible to relearn in by seeking out things from the past.

Statting the founders in terms of modern (for want of a better word) hermetic stats is meaningless because until they all got together and taught each other and Bonisagus, they were all members of different traditions and would have had different Arts and abilities (the roman traditions were probably related but still different) which, when taught to apprentices via the medium of Hermetic Theory become the Arts we know today.

It's my personal theory that Bonisagus was a genius, at best middling-good theorist and terminally curious, and that what really made him special was that he was able to learn new magic without taking a penalty from what he already knew. That would make his integration of different traditions possible, reasonably quick and also explain why noone else has managed to do what he did again - though it'd be a fun Twilight gained virtue for a high-powered, long runing saga.

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Trianoma, Bjornaer, Diedne, and Pralix are all female. Criamon and Jerbiton are both male.

As for fates, Bonisagus went missing (last seen in Greece), while Trianoma died in her sleep at Durenmar (HoH:TL p. 8). The unofficial possible story versions are in an insert on the same page.

Criamon is in Twilight, of course, Bjornaer wandered off in bear form and may still be around as a magical bear, and Merinita went missing, but it is thought that she may still be around as a spirit of nature. Quendalon also just went missing, but since he was a faerie speculation on his fate can run completely riot. Verditius is dead; the enemies in his feud finally caught up with him and did the job properly.

Pralix is indeed vanished, quite possibly killed by magi of Tytalus. Tytalus disappeared into the Maddenhofen Woods, a faerie realm. Jerbiton is indeed dead, and has had Christian burial. Flambeau is generally believed to be dead, but his end is controversial. The orthodox account is that he retired to a monastery and died a monk; the alternative version, which will receive strong support from Marko Markoko any minute, is that he went out in a glorious battle with the Iberian sahirs.

:smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

Still 4 founders about whom i don't have ideas of their fate :slight_smile:

Is there no support for Criamon becoming the Axis mundi in the cave of twisting shadows?

That's the Criamon account of what he's doing in Twilight.

You need to buy the Houses of Hermes books. :wink:

...and Diedne?

Why do you want to know? There are some people here from Magvillus who are very, very interested in why you want to know...

I have all of them, but i can't dig the whole. In fact i have all the books except the Magic now ^^
They aren't the clearest books ^^. (As for the "talisman" and "ultimate book of Ignem" from Flambeau: i have read it somewhere in HOHS, but can't refind it ^^).

And about Diedne and her house the books are way too silent ^^
PS: and yes, maybe in character the topic is "forbidden", but OOC i would like to have any clue. And the books - OOC material - or too silent for me. That is a problem, not in all sagas, but in a saga where you have 4 SGs, you can't say "listen guys, i will play the Diedne side of the Order so let me decide what they where and why they were killed" because that would sell the plot of your future saga... and you haven't any canon material to which the others can refer without you spoiling your plots...

In my online saga, i don't have the problem because i'm the only SG and i decide what they were :slight_smile:

PPS: but it's weekend so let's start my searchs if that's how it is ^^

No, he's not in Twilight. He's the thing that gets you there. The road or doorway to Twilight. Eventually his strength will fail and he will fade into Twilight. Unless Something Good happens before then, this will mean the Order loses access to Twilight. Also, Criamon may not have been male, at the end.

Or, at least, that's the Criamon story...your cosmology may vary.

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Lessee, according to the 5th Edition Canon...

Bjornaer: Last seen leaving Crintera in 831 in the form of an immense bear.
Bonisagus: Last seen in Theban Tribunal in 836 preparing for a secret mission.
Criamon: "Passed from the world" shortly after 1st Tribunal.
Diedne: Unknown.
Flambeau: Last seen leaving Val Negra in 820. Presumed dead due to Difficult Longevity Ritual.
Guernicus: Retired to Magvillus in 817 following the introduction of Certamen. Fenicil named Primus in 832.
Guorna the Fetid: Killed en route to 1st Tribunal.
Jerbiton: Died in his sleep. Given Christian burial.
Mercere: Died in 818 and cremated. Rumored to have ascended to Godhood.
Merinita: Last seen in Rhine Tribunal in 785.
Pralix: Disappeared in 863 too many suspects to mention.
Tremere: Died in 862. Presumably cremated and ashes thrown into the Lethe river beneath Coeris.
Trianoma: Died in her sleep in 832.
Tytalus: Last seen entering Maddenhofen forest in 807.
Verditius: Murdered in Corsica following a life-long vendetta.

From that, quite a few of the founders could, potentially, still be around in 1220...

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