Four Enchantment doubts

First, if one invested item had one expiry effect... are the space of enchantement lost or you can enchant other effect after using the same spaces? And if is it erassed with one Perdo Vim ritual to erase enchantments?
Second: Could one no Verditius magi open to enchantment more with less Vis one Crafted item but no open yet?
Third: Natural items, not human touched, can be opened or enchanted without malus? I say this because the natural on the Mythic Medieval thinking/thought are better because are more near to the ideal; just like the Magic Auras apparition (Natural tethers) suggests. Maybe some class of training on Suvival, Profession: Apothecary, Local lore or Magic Lore are needed or maybe only Magic Theory is enough?
Can one enchanted item those powers were erased opened again after that?

I hope I' reading your questions right :slight_smile:

There is currently no RAW on this. It can be argued either way.
Discuss with your troupe [size=85]Personally I think they are lost[/size].

No, but the question is slightly miss-informed. The verditius magus crafts the item and opens it in the process - the crafting and opening happens during the same span of time.
The Verditius magus does not spend 12 days of his season to craft an object, then open it.
Rather he spends a season crafting it and when he is done has opened it. There is no distinction of processes.

Why should a penalty (malus) be required?
Enchanting a staff or enchanting a branch are essentially the same unless one of them already contains Vis. This is the price paid for the high style of hermetic magic.
Possible expection for the verditius magi, but even then more one of style than of rules.

No-one knows, your guess is as good as mine.
Same answer as for the First question above [size=85]and again I'd say no.[/size]

My own view:

  1. I believe the place in the invested device is "filled" forever, even after the effect has expired. It cannot be erased with a PeVi ritual or in any other way, although I seem to remember the Verditius have an inner mystery that allows them to repair and manipulate items that may allow one to do so.

  2. No. That's what the Verditius mystery is all about - letting you open items you crafted with less vis. One can take an item opened by a Verditius and start investing it with powers, however.

  3. Naturally occurring "Magical Things" have raw vis in them, but that's not the same as being prepared for enchantment. Only Hermetic lab activity, aligned with the stars and all that jazz, can prepare an item for Hermetic enchantment.

  4. Nope. The spaces are lost forever. Most annoyingly, a device with Hermetic Spirit Magic powers that drains spirits to power spells cannot even be filled with new spirits... Again, I think Verditius inner mysteries can change that.



Thanks about the responses, i think you both are right.
3 - There is one exception, with the elementals, that can be enchanted and opened (i supose without "crafting" them).

Actually, I seem to remember that those with Craft Magic can enchant objects that "naturally" contain vis. (HoH:S)

The rules in RoP:Magic for specialty vis often specifically say that the vis inside can be counted for opening. Therefore, it follows that normal vis cannot be used this way.