Frightening Munckinism

It could be a ritual spell, given that any spell that is too powerful can be treated as a ritual. Also making it D: Sun (to make the duration worthwhile) will increase the level to 35th level, and so it would cost 7 pawns of vis. Neptune's Wrath is a good example of this rule. Under the guidelines, such a spell is certainly possible, it's just judged as being too powerful and therefore must be a ritual.
7 pawns of vis, and ~2 hours of preparation time will make such a spell vastly less appealing.

I am not sure how "see how any given object tastes" quite works. You cannot taste what your eyes see, since it's a Vision spell. I can see the spell giving a hue and intensity to taste, but what you perceive is sight species. That doesn't stop it from working though.

I've always though that magical senses used the extramission theory and that there was a limited range at which it was active. Having a T:Smell ping on every Parma in R:Sight is surprising.Your spell would extend to that range.

Yeah, I think the Central Rule is the only way to save ourselves from this terrible fate. :wink:

... Well I can see some magus think "what a weird color this lad has" and go for a lick. :laughing:

Sorry for necro, but is there actually a guideline for the improved teaching aura spells, or does it fall under the munchkin label?

I'm not sure about the spells that improve teaching and a student's learning capabilities.

However, most of the other stuff is quite possible.

I've been thinking of a New "broken" Combo:

Virtues:

Cthonic Magic (Realm of Power Infernal. Note, this virtue is sinful, but just shy of outright selling your soul to the devil)
Major Magical Focus (Afflictions-Corpus & Mentem)
Affinity and Puissant Perdo
Affinity and Puissant Corpus

So Casting Totals provided the caster does something seriously sinful result in a casting total:

Perdo (14+3) + Corpus (14+3) + MMF (17) + Cthonic (17) + Penetration (4) + Cthonic Magic (2) + Stamina (3) = 77

Of course spell level has to be substracted. Still. Pretty intense for just out of apprenticeship.

Please,don't be :slight_smile:

As presented, Aura of the Inspired Teacher looks like an extension of Aura of Ennobled Presence. HoH: S also has a few variants of this, though that particular one I haden't seen before.
Aura of the attentive student I can't quite follow. It's certainly not an extension of the same MuIm effect, as that would make 'arry look(/sound/smell) like a more attentive student, without making him one. I suppose you could do something with ReMe, to force him to focus his attention of the subject, though personally I'd probably classify that as a device to enhance the teaching bonus of the lab.

Yes, yes it does :smiley:
But that's the point of the thread, surely
!

Serf's Parma, but isn't Chtonic Magic a Major Hermetic Virtue for magi?

You have it pretty much right. I took aura of ennobled presence and extended it to teaching. And then extended it to being a student. I didn't spend a lot (or any) working out forms or techniques.

I think the concept is sound (if a bit munchkiny) If a spell can give you plus 3 to impressing people then I have no trouble with a spell that gives plus 3 to learning stuff or plus 3 to other skill like awareness. Apt Student is already a virtue so I feel a spell to duplicate this is not a huge stretch.

I would expect a player to justify his choice or form, tech and level not it should not be overly difficult. After all there are spells in the core book that lift characteristics.

The purpose of the Dumbledore scenario was to pile on as many teaching bonuses as possible. To really abuse the rules and to create a min/max apprentice worthy of the title "Munchkin".

The main problem with the teaching boost spells is its a constant effect. You'll be buying 12 xp for your student at the price of a warping point. Similarly the student will be buying 12 xp for a warping point. In all honesty that isn't worth it. Most magi will get say... two warping points a year barring major accidents. And then they'll get 15 xp. Plus this also shortens the student and teachers lifespan.

Now if you engage in shenanigans to fight warping (Transformed being, immunity to warping, removal of warping, careful timing of how long the effect lasts etc.) then go for it!

One could use the spell for say 10 hour days (dispelling when unneeded) for only one or two seasons per year and not create long term warping (at least by the letter of the rules).

In this thread? Probably!

Mecere Redcap:
Attributes
Presence +3 (at start) +2 Great Characteristic = +5
Communication +3 (at start) +2 Great Characteristic = +5

Virtues
Affinity: Enchanting Song(+1)
Affinity: Charm (+1)
Blood of Heroes (+3) - Helen of Troy
Venus Blessing (Free thanks to Blood of Heroes)
Enchanting Song(+3)
Gift of Tongues (+1)
Great Characteristics (x4) (+4)
Mythic Presence (Alluring Looks) (+1)
Puissant Enchanting Song (+1)
Supernatural Beauty (+3)
Redcap (+3)
Well Traveled (+0)

This will give us:
Presence: 5 with a specialty at seduction and an additional +3 if they are sexually compatible with you for a total of +9
Communication: 5 +3 if they are sexually compatible with you for a total of +8

Charm: 9 (Seduction)
Enchanting Song: 9 (Specialty: young men)
Etiquette: 2
Intrigue: 5
Music: 5

Add to this magical items that include: Aura of Enobled Presence (10 levels) Notes of Delightful sound (10 levels), posing the silent question (20 levels) and Trust of Childlike Faith (10 levels)

So this vixen has a Skill of +22 for presence rolls and +19 for Communication rolls when she wants to enchant people with her song or just try to get poor schmucks to do her biding if they are sexually compatible and she talks all languages that her victims will be able to understand.

Should things go wrong, she has a supernatural beauty that will make the local Templar knight, faerie lord or whomever to come to her rescue.

Thinking that +24 in Enchanting Music allows you to sway the :smiling_imp: Prince of Darkness :smiling_imp: makes this character a Hell of a seductress

Hmm. It has the Supernatural and Hermetic tags on it. As a munchkin, I assume declare that my character was imbued with Cthonic magic supernaturally, not hermetically. :stuck_out_tongue:

Chthonic Magic counts as both a Supernatural and a Hermetic Virtue, not as either a Supernatural or a Hermetic Virtue. Same as e.g. Visions: you can't say that you'll take it as a Supernatural Virtue, so you can take another Story Flaw.

As a munchkin, I disagree. The text of the virtue clearly shows an example with both Diedne Magic and says a "type of Magical Focus". It is clearly meant to work with other +3 Hermetic Virtues, therefore it doesn't count as one if I don't want it to. :stuck_out_tongue:

Alright - but only in the context of this thread! :wink:

I'm bored, so here's a bit of geeking from a campaign that ended way too soon.

Dream Lab of Saxonous
Aura +7 magic
Size +3
Refinement = 10
General Quality = + 33
Upkeep = + 7
Safety = + 7
Warping = + 1
Health = + 9
Aesthetics = +28 (Reputation, 7, Perfectionist)
Specializations = Creo +20, Items +17, +2 Longevity Potions, +2 Teaching
Defenses(Portcullus)(+1 aesthetics)
Extensive Stores(+2 safety)(+1)
Familiar (+15 quality, +3 safety)
Flawless Equipment (+2 quality, -1 upkeep, +2 Vis Extraction)
Flawless Tools (+2 safety, -1 Upkeep, +2 items)
Grand Entrance(+2 aesthetics)
Greater Expansion (+2 quality, +4 upkeep, +1 aesthetics +2 Creo,) (+1)
Greater Guardian (+3 safety, +1 Warping, +3 creo) (+1)
Greater Horde (+2 quality, +1 upkeep, +1 safety, +2 aesthetics, +2 creo) (+1)
Highly organized(+1 general quality)
Inexhaustible Supplies (-3 upkeep, +1 warping)
Lab Focus, Greater(+2 aesthetics, +3 items)(+1) (Anvil)
Lab Focus, Greater(+2 aesthetics, +3 creo) (+1) (Beehive)
Lab Focus, Greater(+2 aesthetics, +3 items) (+1) (Forge)
Lab Focus, Greater(+2 aesthetics, +3 creo) (+1) (Garden)
Lab Focus, Greater(+2 aesthetics, +3 items) (+1) (Lathe)
Lab Focus, Greater(+2 aesthetics, +3 items) (+1) (Running Water)
Lab Focus, Greater(+2 aesthetics, +3 items) (+1) (Wheel)
Magic Air +2 health
Magic Heat, Lighting(+2 aesthetics, +1 health, + 1 ig, +1 im)
Magic Item, PerdoVim, (-2 Warping)
Magic Item, PerdoVim, (-2 Warping)
Magic Item, CreoAu (+2 health)
Magic Item, ReTer (Golden Servant) +2 quality *4
Palatial (+1 qual, +3 upkeep, +2 health, +4 aesthetics, +2 teach, +1 creo) (+1)
Preserved (+1 warping, +2 Health, +1 Aesthetics, +1 creo)
Priceless Ingredients (+2 quality, +4 upkeep, +2 Longevity Rituals)
Refinement 10
Spacious(+2 safety, +1 aesthetics)(+1)
Spotless(+1 health, +1 aesthetics, +1 creo)
Subterranean(+1 upkeep, -1 health, -1 aesthetics, +1 te)(-1)
Superior Construction(+1 safety, +1 aesthetics)
Vis source (-1 safety, +1 Warping, +2 Creo) (Beehive)
vis source (-1 safety, +1 Warping, +2 Creo) (Garden)
Well Insulated(+1 safety, +1 aesthetics)(+1)

I welcome suggestions for the PerdoVim -2 Warping items, and items that would add to Health are also welcome. I assumed a Leadership limit for the ReTe golden servant magic items. I had Items of Quality, which I used for my Flawless equipment and Items, and Runic Magic for Inexhaustible Supplies and Priceless Ingredients. The Greater Guardian and Greater Horde from a Magic Might 20 Queen Bee I befriended. Not the lab I had, but the Lab I hoped to have at the fifty year mark.....

I'm not sure that the lab is munckinism. Even if the saga played out, would you have even gotten to that point? Just how many seasons was involved in fixing it up, it's looking to be about 40 from my view of the refinement and the virtues needed. And you'd have to have an MT of 13...

More then forty, need to make the magic items, and "Item of Quality" several of the features, so fifty five or so. And not a Magic Theory of thirteen, a MT of eleven and puissant, yes? And affinity, too, no guts no glory, and fifty five seasons in the lab is 165 exp to Magic Theory, yes? (Just about from 9 to 11 right there) And why wouldn't I have? I made magic items for the Covenant, and my arts didn't need to be as high as most of you guys aim for. How many years would it take me to get 18s or 20s in my Art scores? I had Elder runes (plus Runic Magic (gods the Warping!)) so I think I would have had enough time to improve my lab and still do my duties. We are talking about fifty years in total......

True, but I don't consider that munckinism in the strictest sense. It is more like having a strong vision for your character's development and sticking to it. Such a path is going to involve a fair amount of sacrifice. Consider that it's 50 seasons out of 200 where you're improving your lab. Then there's building your Arts, as you suggested. What about a Talisman? A Familiar? At about 30 years, thinking about an apprentice, too perhaps, especially with all that Warping? What's the covenant service like?

Well, I thought that was what "Munchkinism" was all about. A strong vision for your character, and seeing it through until the other players go "That's just wrong!". As to the other stuff, Familiar is mentioned in the lab write up, and yes, would take time to raise the int to +5 and raise the Magic Theory to 10 (the plan was swapping huge opened devices for high level ritual spells. I was pretty sure that having a ten magic theory, a Philosophy of 6, and Elder runes would prove, um, valuable, and we had a summa of Magic Theory at eight level in game (not at start. But the other players missed how important Magic Theory was, and we "found" it on a dead Redcap, to fix it. Quite annoying, really. I spent a lot of exp's starting on Magic Theory.......). As to an Apprentice, heck no, work around dirty, smelly people? Talisman? Um, not really a spellcaster, so no. No the plan was to help the whole house and win the contest by copying my spirit into an Awakened Device, to become the ultimate Verditius teaching item. Behold my Great Work!

A 50 year investment of time isn't insignificant, and not exactly munchkinism.
Not like starting out with TeFo CS of 60+ out of gauntlet.