From Cloak to Yourt - Need help for size issue

Games Discussion Ars Magica
1

Okay, I have a proven track record of mishandling and misunderstanding how size increase works with spell and I am also a sucker for punishment, so here I go...

The same mage as the author of Jail made of Leather wants to made his cloak into his talisman and wants to invest several effects to survive in the North.

From Cloak to Yurt
Turn a cloak into a Yurt.
Mu(Re)An, Base 2 (major change, yet preserve the substance), R:Per (only the cloak), T: Ind, D: Conc. The +1 Rego requisit is to hold the yurt without requiring poles.
I need to toss in a few size modifiers, and here is my math: assuming a cloak around 3 square meters, a first size increase will multiply its mass by ten, or every dimension by 2.2. Since the tent does not need to be thicker, the surface will increase from 3 sm to 30 sm (length and width by 2.2, and the extra mass not used for extra thickness bring another 2.2 factor, which ends up exactly to be 10) , and a second magnitude increase will bring it to 300 sm.
Is this part correct or do I miss another factor somewhere ?

Assuming it is okay, let's keep going.
For a yurt of roughly 50 sm (the size for a lab, for example), assuming a cylinder, 3m high, with tops and bottom, it needs roughly 140 sm, more than enough.

To be comfortable and considering further expansion, let's had a +1 for complexity and +1 for flexibility, that allows to create a more complex structure with a few connected smaller yurts (bedroom, reception hall) since there is some spare square meters of leather.

As such, it is a rather thin wall yurt, not the traditional robust construction, and it won't keep much heat in.

So I want to add a CrIg spell to generate lights and heat (CrIg Base 4). D: Conc, T: Touch (with the new clarification being discuss Per cannot affect anymore a container, am I right ?), R: Room.
R: Room to select individually light and heat in each room created by the spell.
As a cloak, if my mage wants to stay warm, could he used this effect with R:Room, despite not really being a Room (closed cloak could be loosely considered as an enclosed space, so kind of fit the descriptor, but if it opens it is no more a close space.

Finally, I want to add a Ward against Gale Wind (ReAu Base 10). Can I use R: Per, T:Ind with +2 size modifier to protect me (while a cloak) or the yurt compound (once transformed), which is a magnitude-friendly option? Or should I use R: Touch (+1), T:Structure (+3) (because of two or three rooms), which is two magnitudes higher than the first option ?

2

I agree with your size maths.

The heating and ward being personal or touch range is definitely a SG interpretation, because it being a talisman adds an extra aspect, over and above the personal range discussion thread.

I doubt the original Ars Majica rules writers thought a character might have a boat, tent, etc as a talisman, so didn't think to clarify that large enough talismans do, or do not, allow personal ranges larger than individual.

Regarding the individual and room/structure aspect.
Page 113 core rules " A spell with target Room is useless if there is no Room containing the targets". A generous SG may suggest adding a magnitude for complexity and then the spells could "downgrade" to target individual when needed.

More than 1 room, it is structure time. No nuance there.

3

I think a simpler route for a small yurt would be to use the MuAn Level 4 guideline "Change something made of animal products in a minor unnatural way." You alter the cloak so that it stretches into a thin, but stable and protective, yurt-like structure. No need for Rego, no need for Size modifiers etc. And the yurt keeps the occupants as warm as they'd be inside the original cloak. The fact that a cloak and a yurt are both items meant to shield one or two people from the elements helps keep the change minor, metaphysically.

For a really large, but still simple, yurt - one the size of a little hut capable of holding a small lab - I'd add a magnitude, either for +1 size or for a "major" unnatural change. Yet another magnitude brings it to the size and complexity of a townhouse, with an extra +1 needed if you want flexibility in the arrangement.

I'd definitely allow a R:Per, T:Ind weather ward that affects the talisman to affect the magus (when he's wearing it as a cloak, in which case he's "part of the cloak") and indirectly everyone within it (when it's a yurt, though in this case only for weather originating from outside the yurt). Note that the ward should be specific to one type of weather phenomenon: either wind or rain, for example (though I'd probably allow anything "storm-related" by tossing in an extra magnitude).

As for heat an light, again, I'd allow a R:Per, T:Ind effect to make the inside of the cloak/yurt warm regardless of outside temperatures (this is CrIg base 2) and illuminated as on a cloudy day (this is a separate CrIg base 4 effect). I'd actually allow the two effects to be combined as a single one (warm and glowing) by taking the higher-level one and adding an extra magnitude, for a base level of 5.

4

shed a tear :smile:

That was my reasoning. Regardless of the size (cloak or yurt), a Personal ward will protect the enchanted item. It has the added benefit, because it is a closed volume, to protect what is inside from outside gale wind.

I went with Gale Winds because it is really the worth of both. This kind of clothing is water resistant. I also intend to add Cloak of the Duck Feather, but because my mage is not well-versed in both Aquam and Auram, it is still more efficient for him to make two separate enchantments of lower level than one
ReAu(Aq) encompassing both aspects of rain, snow and wind.

In due time (meaning once he will get the proper Arts), he will design a MuTe(Im) with Conc, duration, turning the content of the yurt into images imprinted in the wall of the yurt, to easily set up camp and enjoy good aura, and pack and leave when weather becomes too bad.

5

You are missing that increasing size is base 4, and since it’s higher should be the basis for the effect. So, base 4 (increase up to 10 in area), with +1 extra increase, +1 additional effect (conforming the leather to a yurt). Rego might be unnecessary (the yurt becomes rigid in the right places to keep itself upright as part of the added effect).

CrIg at room is dubious.

The target of a Creo spell that actually creates something is the thing created. The target is thus always Individual or Group. (…) A Creo spell with target Room cannot be
used to fill a room with something. Instead, use target Group with an appropriate size modifier.

If you say the effect is to fill the room with light or heat, I'd say it’s not possible. If you make everything (everything) warm while inside the room, then ok.

As pointed, if this is a talisman you do have some leeway with using personal, as long as you only need to target the magus.

6

A reminder, that in order to enchant a large item, you need to build a Lab large enough to properly encompass the large item and allow for the necessary enchanting actions. A boat or a tent are probably too large for most normal labs. So at least two extra Seasons of work building the new lab.

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7

I am enchanting a cloak that can turn into a tent. Not the reverse. And since it is a Talisman, vis capacity is not really an issue with the appropriate Arts.

8

Although ... how about keeping the item magically shrunk while it gets enchanted?

9

500 square feet is very large, at least for a medieval room.

And there are ways around even that.

10

That's the basic requirement for a lab (Covenant p 106).

11

It occurs to me that I don't know, if during the finalisation of the enchantment process, is it typical that the enchanter test the enchantment power in their Lab. I guess there are circumstances when you wouldn't.

12

I feel like there could be problems with that.
I was under the impression that the entire purpose of the Lab is to avoid stray external "magic currents" from affecting the enchantment. If the material is under a magical effect at the time of enchanting, I would have thought that it might affect the enchantment.

I may be letting real-world clean-room situations distort my thinking.

13

That was sort of my point - apologies for clearly not being clear.
500 square feet is very large. It should be easy enough to fit a tent in a lab that large.

14

Well, if an opened device has been enchanted to produce a constant Per effect, one can still in general enchant more effects into it, right?

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15

You can fit a lot of stuff in 500 square feet.
Most of what you're fitting in there is your LAB.

As a reminder, if you're using lab construction rules, a small sleeping corner takes up a size of your lab.