General Spell Guideline Rules?

[crawfs]

Hey everyone, me and my friends are terribly confused regarding the general guidelines for spells. Where we are confused is whether you include the increased magnitude from Range/Duration/Target to the power of the spell, for example:

Demon's Eternal Oblivion is a spell that lowers a demon's might equal to the level of the spell, now this general guideline spell includes a +2 magnitude of Voice range, is that included in the might reduction? (ArM 5 Core p160)

To further confuse the matter under Wonders Guidelines (RoP The Divine p56) the second general guideline says the following: "create a natural substance that harms non-divine supernatural creatures, such as water that corrodes like acid or light that burns like fire, doing + (BASE LEVEL - 5) damage." So this one specifies the base level of the spell, does that mean other general guidelines are referring to the total value of the spell after Range/Duration/Target calculations?

Would appreciate clarification on this because it's driving me nuts.

[callen]

Think of it differently:

1. Choose the base to get the effect you want.
2. Then increase the magnitude as necessary to add R/D/T.

So, for example, let's try Demon's Eternal Oblivion. Let's say you want to destroy 20 Might. Base 10 + 2 magnitudes = 20, so you need Base 10. Then you want R: Voice, D: Momentary, T: Individual. That adds 2 magnitudes to your Base 10 to get a level-20 spell, which happens to equal the 20 Might it destroys. Destroying 20 Might but changing Voice to Sight would start at Base 10 and be increased by 3 magnitudes to get a level-25 spell.

[ExarKun]

it seems you double-posted this here: How do general guidelines work?

My answer there is:

@ExarKun

Generally speaking you choose a base level.
Say 20.
You read the description of the guideline. In the PeVi example it is base +2 magnitudes iirc. You then chose parameteres. Voice, which is +2 magnitudes.
Your spell is level 30, and destroys 30 might points.
So for this example spell, the "destroying" power is equal to the level, because of the parameter.

Should have the parameter of the canon spell been sight, your spell would have said that its destroying power is "level of this spell -5".

For your RoPD example it is this: chose a base. Say 15. This creates a substance doing +20 damage. Now you need parameters, durations, etc.

As for the long term fatigue, no. See RoPD p69, second column end of the first paragraph: "Magi may use this special vis when ceremonially casting spells, but not with other kinds of magic or laboratory work — actual vis must be spent to enchant a magic item or study the Hermetic Arts." Casting the longevity ritual is not a spell because you don't have any casting total.