General Spells and Adaptive casting

What would you folks consider to be the shade of difference between a General Level Spell and a Similar Spell? The Adaptive Casting Mastery Ability applies to General Spells and not Similar Spells, and I like RAW Vanilla :smiley:

Anyway, with the examples of General Spells we have in Cannon; each have their parameters set the same (Range/Duration/Target), but their effective power is increased with the level. Most examples are geared towards creatures with a Might score, such as most any Ward, or Deo, and similar spells. Others, mainly Vim, are geared towards spell level/opposing casting scores; such as in MuVi and PeVi spells (Wizard’s Boost, Winds of Mundane Silence, etceteras).

My question is a spell that simply sprays a Jet of flame for “x” amount of damage. I want to invent it as a General level spell; doing an increasing amount of damage with higher levels. Similar would be a teleport that lets you travel further with higher levels, or a healing spell that cures more severe wounds with higher levels.

Since all I am changing is the Potency of the effect and not the effect itself nor any other parameters, would these count as General Level spells? Why or why not?

hmm I don't know. My gut instinct from the spirit (if not the letter) of the rules is that General level spells are designed specifically to act against something active (a creature's MR, a spell being cast or an active spell already cast on someone or something). As such you are handed a spell framework in which (as you) increasing power is compared against the active opposition.

For spells like your jet of flame, the intent is simply "do damage" and the only caveat might involve the amount of penetration the spell has once the spell level is subtracted. This is the fundamental basis of all formulaic spells, to my mind, and as such does not lend itself to the milieu of General Spells.

Thus, if a magus wants numerous similar spells, they should still need to be formulaic in nature. In that regard the RAW provides a bonus to one's lab total for reinventing the spell at differing levels for greater damage or incremental changes in the R,D,T elements.

Thats the "shade of difference" in my opinion and how I would play it. Otherwise I think it is just shortcutting the intent of the spell system for a one size fits all spell (and in that way, undermines the raison d'etre of the similar spell bonus mechanism).


Well, General spells are also similar. The only benefit to being General as to Similar is Adaptive Casting. And I am indeed going up against a specific score: the target's Soak. But I see your PoV.

I didn't say going up against a specific score so much as going up against something active (as best i can word how i conceive it). One's soak is a passive aspect either of their person or of the protective accoutrements they are wearing.

Sure General Spells are (or can be) similar spells but for the RAW and the spirit of the system as I read it, they are created with their own in-built mechanic apart from the "reinventing" mechanic of formulaic spells (for which the similar spell mechanic is more specifically provided).

Hey, in the end its just my opinion. The game is what you want or need it to be so handwave as you wish so long as it doesnt unbalance your saga down the line.

All General Spells are Similar spells, no can be or may be about it, that is what they are automatically by definition. There is no separate mechanic for General spells, other than it needs to be General to qualify for the Adaptive Mastery.

LOL, understood friend. I just really like RAW Vanilla :slight_smile: And nowadays I am a player. As a SG, you would have a nervous breakdown if you saw the level of power I let players get away with :smiley:

But my philosophy is to take the debate to the forum and let my peers sound off on their ideas. It tests and proves concepts in the fire. My next question would be if you would allow Adaptive Casting for Similar Spells as oposed to General Spells (which are also Similar by default)?

Well i think that question has already been discussed. I recall a thread not long ago talking about Adaptive Casting mastery for similar spells. The general consensus, if I recall rightly, was that Adaptive casting would need to be taken for all the spells in order to allow the other mastery abilities to function with any and all of them. Or something to that effect.

If that's what you're driving at anyways. :wink:

That was me :slight_smile: I am driving at something slightly different though. And in that discussion, I said Similar Spells by mistake when I meant General Spells.

I'd probably allow this in my saga. Adaptive Casting is meant to cover when the magus is essentially re-learning the same spell at a higher level to take advantage of his increased Arts scores. As long as it's basically the same spell as the one he's mastered already, I think he should be able to adapt his mastery abilities to it.

I would totally allow it too. The reason I say I like RAW Vanilla is that I seek for universal solutions that can be applied to most any saga.

This is the spell in question. I have not invented it yet but I plan to very soon :smiling_imp: However, I am thinking of reconceiving it as a General Levels spell; the jet does damage equal to (level -5), and the distance you are projecting it will be (paces = to level)

CrIg20 Wrath of Reculed
R: Touch, D: Mom, T: Ind, Req: Rego
This spell creates a jet of flame that emanates from your hands, three feet wide and shooting out up to twenty paces in the direction you choose. Anything caught in the path of this flame suffers +15 damage (-1 per pace of distance). Aiming is usually easy for this spell (+1 on Targeting rolls), but going against strong winds can be difficult (-1 or more). A jet is a natural form of fire that can be found various places in the Middle East.
(Base 10, +1 Touch, +1 Requisite)

Barring the General Spell trick, I was also contemplating making a similar spell with a Duration of Concentration.

I don't think i'd allow a general spell that altered damage and range. One or the other, but not both. It seems "too" general :laughing: As a spell, it looks balanced, the variable range could be powerful, but the rego requiste brings it back down.
I'd allow it as a spell, but not as a general spell. Not with 2 variables.

The range is not variable. It is always "Touch". The rego requisite hurls the flame, and the actual vulume determines damage and distance (not range)